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  #1  
Old 03-30-2010, 11:13 AM
Alumiyum Alumiyum is offline
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Originally Posted by DaemonSeid View Post
Not really. Or at least if you aren't from the angle that this is a top priority. Schools aren't babysitters.

Even still this story is bothersome.

And the statement of "their lack of understanding of harrassment" is a bit bothersome too.
If it's been brought to their attention either directly or indirectly they have a duty to follow whatever procedures they have in place for dealing with bullies...I don't remember horrible bullying happening when I was in school, but even a little harassment can really effect a teenager. We only had AIM. I can't imagine what it's like to be a target now with everyone on Facebook. It would be a bully's paradise because it's so easy to broadcast negative messages to anyone and everyone in seconds.
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:49 PM
rhoyaltempest rhoyaltempest is offline
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Originally Posted by Alumiyum View Post
If it's been brought to their attention either directly or indirectly they have a duty to follow whatever procedures they have in place for dealing with bullies...I don't remember horrible bullying happening when I was in school, but even a little harassment can really effect a teenager. We only had AIM. I can't imagine what it's like to be a target now with everyone on Facebook. It would be a bully's paradise because it's so easy to broadcast negative messages to anyone and everyone in seconds.
EXACTLY. The internet takes bullying to a whole different level and gives all kinds of people a voice; people (bullies and cowards in particular) that otherwise might not say/do anything.
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Old 03-30-2010, 01:02 PM
DaemonSeid DaemonSeid is offline
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Originally Posted by Alumiyum View Post
If it's been brought to their attention either directly or indirectly they have a duty to follow whatever procedures they have in place for dealing with bullies...I don't remember horrible bullying happening when I was in school, but even a little harassment can really effect a teenager. We only had AIM. I can't imagine what it's like to be a target now with everyone on Facebook. It would be a bully's paradise because it's so easy to broadcast negative messages to anyone and everyone in seconds.
But...if the parent wasn't seeing results from the school she should have probably gone further up the chain of command.

it's amazing the stories I am reading this year of things happening in schools for MONTHS and parents have no clue until it's too late or they have a clue and they aren't IMO more diligent about getting results.

And Alumiyum...regardless of computers or phones or whatever...bullying is bullying.

I can easily tell you what people did in my time before all this happened and you still had the same results such as what you are reading now.

Nothing beats adults who get involved in such a way to head off courses of destructive behavior before they have these kinds of results.
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:19 PM
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honeychile honeychile is offline
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From the Boston Globe: The Untouchable Mean Girls by Kevin Cullen

Like a lot of kids her age, Phoebe Prince was a swan, always beautiful and sometimes awkward.

Last fall, she moved from Ireland into western Massachusetts, a new town, a new high school, a new country, a new culture. She was 15, when all that matters is being liked and wearing the right clothes and just fitting in.

She was a freshman and she had a brief fling with a senior, a football player, and for this she became the target of the Mean Girls, who decided then and there that Phoebe didn’t know her place and that Phoebe would pay.

Kids can be mean, but the Mean Girls took it to another level, according to students and parents. They followed Phoebe around, calling her a slut. When they wanted to be more specific, they called her an Irish slut.

The name-calling, the stalking, the intimidation was relentless.

Ten days ago, Phoebe was walking home from school when one of the Mean Girls drove by in a car. An insult and an energy drink can came flying out the car window in Phoebe’s direction.

Phoebe kept walking, past the abuse, past the can, past the white picket fence, into her house. Then she walked into a closet and hanged herself. Her 12-year-old sister found her.

You would think this would give the bullies who hounded Phoebe some pause. Instead, they went on Facebook and mocked her in death.

They told State Police detectives they did nothing wrong, had nothing to do with Phoebe killing herself.

And then they went right back to school and started badmouthing Phoebe.

They had a dance, a cotillion, at the Log Cabin in Holyoke two days after Phoebe’s sister found her in the closet, and some who were there say one of the Mean Girls bragged about how she played dumb with the detectives who questioned her.

Last week, one of the Springfield TV stations sent a crew to South Hadley High to talk to the kids.

One girl was interviewed on camera, and she said what was common knowledge: that bullies were stalking the corridors of South Hadley High.

As soon as the TV crew was out of sight, one of the Mean Girls came up and slammed the girl who had been interviewed against a locker and punched her in the head.

The Mean Girls are pretty, and popular, and play sports.

So far, they appear to be untouchable, too.

South Hadley is a nice, comfortable middle-class suburb that hugs the Connecticut River nearby and a certain attitude.

“Things like this aren’t supposed to happen in South Hadley,’’ said Darby O’Brien, a high school parent, wondering why the bullies who tormented Phoebe are still in school. “And so instead of confronting the evil among us, the reality that there are bullies roaming the corridors at South Hadley High, people are blaming the victim, looking for excuses why a 15-year-old girl would do this. People are in denial.’’

School officials say there are three investigations going on. They say these things take time.

That doesn’t explain why the Mean Girls who tortured Phoebe remain in school, defiant, unscathed.

“What kind of message does this send to the good kids?’’ O’Brien asked. “How many kids haven’t come forward to tell what they know because they see the bullies walking around untouched?’’

They were supposed to hold a big meeting on Tuesday to talk about all this, but now that’s off for a couple of weeks.

O’Brien is thinking about going to that meeting and suggesting that they have the kids who bullied Phoebe look at the autopsy photos.

“Let them see what a kid who hung herself looks like,’’ he said.

Last week, Phoebe was supposed to visit Ireland, where she grew up, and she was excited because she was going to see her father for the first time in months.

She did end up going back to Ireland after all, and when her father saw her she was in a casket.

Phoebe’s family decided to bury her in County Clare. They wanted an ocean between her and the people who hounded her to the grave.

These girls and boys are nothing but thugs, using computers and rape instead of brass knuckles and guns. That poor girl had come here, expecting wonderful things to happen. Nobody listened to those who tried to intervene. If even one of the parents of these bullies tries to defend his or her child's actions, I hope they're charged with aiding and abetting the felony charges. To say how much this harms the United States in the world court of opinion doesn't begin to cover the brutality of this. May God forgive them - someday.
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  #5  
Old 03-30-2010, 02:24 PM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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The school has a duty to protect children while under their care.
Not really. Or at least if you aren't from the angle that this is a top priority. Schools aren't babysitters.
Yes, really. While kids are at school, the school is in loco parentis -- in place of the parents, meaning the school takes on some of the functions and responsibilities of a parent while the student is at school. That in no way relieves the actual parents of primary responsibility, including the responsibility to do something if they believe the school is not being responsive to concerns about bullying. But I think the school definitely has the responsibility to provide a safe learning environment, which includes a learning environment as free as possible from bullying.
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  #6  
Old 03-30-2010, 02:39 PM
DaemonSeid DaemonSeid is offline
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Originally Posted by MysticCat View Post
Yes, really. While kids are at school, the school is in loco parentis -- in place of the parents, meaning the school takes on some of the functions and responsibilities of a parent while the student is at school. That in no way relieves the actual parents of primary responsibility, including the responsibility to do something if they believe the school is not being responsive to concerns about bullying. But I think the school definitely has the responsibility to provide a safe learning environment, which includes a learning environment as free as possible from bullying.

I agree with your point. What I was saying to GW was that it's not the school primary function.

The only problem is IMO until there is a law or a ban put into place to cease bullying schools will still only make token efforts to stop kids who bully.
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  #7  
Old 03-30-2010, 02:49 PM
Prettyface08 Prettyface08 is offline
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I agree with your point. What I was saying to GW was that it's not the school primary function.

The only problem is IMO until there is a law or a ban put into place to cease bullying schools will still only make token efforts to stop kids who bully.
Or until enough kids commit suicide. *shrugs* Sad.
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  #8  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:01 PM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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The only problem is IMO until there is a law or a ban put into place to cease bullying schools will still only make token efforts to stop kids who bully.
Most states, including Massachusetts as of a few weeks ago, do have bullying laws. The specifics, including the responsibilities of schools, will vary from state to state, but many encompass cyber-bullying.
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  #9  
Old 03-31-2010, 08:17 AM
Alumiyum Alumiyum is offline
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Originally Posted by DaemonSeid View Post
But...if the parent wasn't seeing results from the school she should have probably gone further up the chain of command.

it's amazing the stories I am reading this year of things happening in schools for MONTHS and parents have no clue until it's too late or they have a clue and they aren't IMO more diligent about getting results.

And Alumiyum...regardless of computers or phones or whatever...bullying is bullying.

I can easily tell you what people did in my time before all this happened and you still had the same results such as what you are reading now.

Nothing beats adults who get involved in such a way to head off courses of destructive behavior before they have these kinds of results.
Sometimes parents can't know. My parents didn't have a clue what school was like for me when I was in junior high because I sure as hell wasn't going to tell them. There's only so much they can do short of removing the kids from the school, and that's a hard and sometimes impossible decision (it's great if they can afford private school or afford to move, but that's not always possible). It's up to the school to fix a bullying problem taking place on the campus during school hours.

I understand bullying is always bad, but when the internet is involved it's impossible to escape. Gossip is easily spread by mouth but when Facebook, Myspace, IM, etc. are involved it can be absolutely impossible for the victim to escape, and it's all in writing for the entire world to see. It can feel like there's truly no escape.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:54 AM
MysticCat MysticCat is offline
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With that said, assuming this guy is no older than 18, it wouldn't be considered statutory rape. For it to be considered statutory, the age difference has to be over 3 years. Their age difference isn't enough to consider it statutory.
This is one of those things that varies from state to state.
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  #11  
Old 03-31-2010, 09:01 AM
Prettyface08 Prettyface08 is offline
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Originally Posted by Alumiyum View Post
Sometimes parents can't know. My parents didn't have a clue what school was like for me when I was in junior high because I sure as hell wasn't going to tell them. There's only so much they can do short of removing the kids from the school, and that's a hard and sometimes impossible decision (it's great if they can afford private school or afford to move, but that's not always possible). It's up to the school to fix a bullying problem taking place on the campus during school hours.

I understand bullying is always bad, but when the internet is involved it's impossible to escape. Gossip is easily spread by mouth but when Facebook, Myspace, IM, etc. are involved it can be absolutely impossible for the victim to escape, and it's all in writing for the entire world to see. It can feel like there's truly no escape.
So SHE can't turn off HER computer? That part of her world she can control. No, it's not fair that she's not able to use facebook/myspace/whatever space....but she doesn't have to read it. At the very least she could have peace in her own home.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:21 AM
LegallyBrunette LegallyBrunette is offline
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If she consented to it, then probably not. It would just be like two people consenting to have sex.


I only know about the age difference thing because a friend of mine had to go through that in HS. She got pregnant with her bf's baby, and the mom tried to have him arrested for statutory. The police wouldn't do anything because there wasn't technically over a 3 year age difference. (she was 16, he was 19)
This is not the law in MA. There is no requirement for a three year age difference.

See MGL. c.265, s. 23. [Commonly known as the Statutory Rape Law]. Rape and abuse of child.

Whoever unlawfully has sexual intercourse or unnatural sexual intercourse, and abuses a child under 16 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for life or for any term of years or, except as otherwise provided, for any term in a jail or house of correction. A prosecution commenced under this section shall neither be continued without a finding nor placed on file. (my emphasis)



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So SHE can't turn off HER computer? That part of her world she can control. No, it's not fair that she's not able to use facebook/myspace/whatever space....but she doesn't have to read it. At the very least she could have peace in her own home.
Yes, she could turn off her computer, but my understanding is that the bullying was much more pervasive than that (including being followed home from school). Plus, I think it's important to remember that this poor girl was 15--an adult's reaction and ability to cope with internet harassment is likely to be more rational (or maybe not, IIRC, there has been at least one situation here on GC that has gotten out of hand and moved into real life).
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:41 AM
Prettyface08 Prettyface08 is offline
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This is not the law in MA. There is no requirement for a three year age difference.

See MGL. c.265, s. 23. [Commonly known as the Statutory Rape Law]. Rape and abuse of child.

Whoever unlawfully has sexual intercourse or unnatural sexual intercourse, and abuses a child under 16 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for life or for any term of years or, except as otherwise provided, for any term in a jail or house of correction. A prosecution commenced under this section shall neither be continued without a finding nor placed on file. (my emphasis)





Yes, she could turn off her computer, but my understanding is that the bullying was much more pervasive than that (including being followed home from school). Plus, I think it's important to remember that this poor girl was 15--an adult's reaction and ability to cope with internet harassment is likely to be more rational (or maybe not, IIRC, there has been at least one situation here on GC that has gotten out of hand and moved into real life).
Oh no, I understand that it was more pervasive than that and I think it's despicable...I was responding specifically to the "when the internet is involved it's impossible to escape," comment. Actually if you take my response in it's entire context it says that it's not fair to her. I just meant that at the very least she could have peace in her own home by not reading the stuff on the internet. If they CAME to her house, then that's an entirely different story.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:03 AM
LegallyBrunette LegallyBrunette is offline
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Yes, if only those stupid kids would just act and think like adults.

Maybe after we can get all adults to do that we can start expecting it of kids.
Exactly.

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Oh no, I understand that it was more pervasive than that and I think it's despicable...I was responding specifically to the "when the internet is involved it's impossible to escape," comment. Actually if you take my response in it's entire context it says that it's not fair to her. I just meant that at the very least she could have peace in her own home by not reading the stuff on the internet. If they CAME to her house, then that's an entirely different story.
Right. I understand your point, my point was that I just don't think it's very realistic to expect that a 15 year old would just ignore things being said about her on the internet for the sake of peace, especially in light of everything else that was happening. My apologies if I wasn't clear.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:37 PM
Ghostwriter Ghostwriter is offline
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Sometimes parents can't know. My parents didn't have a clue what school was like for me when I was in junior high because I sure as hell wasn't going to tell them. There's only so much they can do short of removing the kids from the school, and that's a hard and sometimes impossible decision (it's great if they can afford private school or afford to move, but that's not always possible). It's up to the school to fix a bullying problem taking place on the campus during school hours.
Agree. If the school is aware of it as this one was.

My daughter did not tell us of the kids picking on her in middle school and now when I think back on it my heart breaks. I just didn't know or I would have set things right. Maybe that is why she didn't tell her mother or me. Parents are separated from their kids by an invisible wall at certain ages. I know I didn't tell my parents all that was going on with me at school.
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