HELP! Can I rush a new sorority!?

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Oh, we had people who used the "I have to study" excuse to get out of mixers too (or who just stayed for the at-the-time required half hour and went home). Usually they were older sisters who were a little scared of the new and different fraternities we were mixing with that weren't the old reliables. We all have some lame sisters. It's the truth.

But let's face facts: these policies - super easy pledgeship, getting rid of/restricting mandatory events, and making it hard (if not impossible) to get rid of lame pledges or sisters - aren't being made by current students. They're being made by the national councils and HQs who on one hand are terrified of getting sued for hazing, emotional distress, what have you, and on the other hand are scared to death of being perceived as politically incorrect or elitist. It's nice of them to believe that just getting a bid to a wonderful group will turn your attitude around and make you a responsible person who gives your all to your sorority but life just isn't a bowl of cherries like that.

Like als463 said, the NPHC groups don't seem to have this problem...at least to this extent...and they're taking members that are the same age. So I think to just say "this generation sucks" is a little bit too pat.

hc: I don't know how mp3s work at all.

You are not wrong, lady. AST rules say that you MAY NOT vote on ANY new member again for ANY reason unless they are brought up to standards board and standards board decides their punishment is to be voted on. In essence, it completely takes away from our ability to decide. On top of that, since our Greek Life Adviser on campus gets a cash bonus for placing all girls who go through recruitment, we can be (and have been) given mandatory QAs and snap bids. Don't like it? Too bad. You don't get the option to refuse them. At all. So we get stuck with girls who are wet blankets, who can't put together a coherent sentence, who drink like fish or who have slept with every Sigma Pi on the block and think it makes them cool....and we have no way to get them out.

We were recently put in a situation where we found out (three days before initiation) that some of our new girls had been bullying other ones pretty intensely, to the point where several wanted to drop. Because our president had kept it a secret from the chapter, we found out very late and were basically told, "it's too late to do anything. Just suck it up." Each girl that was a problem has CONTINUED to be a problem in our chapter, and we would be significantly better off without. But at some point, you can't revoke real membership without a very real reason...and "being someone that everyone in all GLCs hates, giving us a bad name with your attitude and making us look like bitches" don't really cut it.

If we had been able to drop them in a moment's notice while they were new members, our entire chapter would be better off.

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

You are not wrong, lady. AST rules say that you MAY NOT vote on ANY new member again for ANY reason unless they are brought up to standards board and standards board decides their punishment is to be voted on. In essence, it completely takes away from our ability to decide. On top of that, since our Greek Life Adviser on campus gets a cash bonus for placing all girls who go through recruitment, we can be (and have been) given mandatory QAs and snap bids. Don't like it? Too bad. You don't get the option to refuse them. At all. So we get stuck with girls who are wet blankets, who can't put together a coherent sentence, who drink like fish or who have slept with every Sigma Pi on the block and think it makes them cool....and we have no way to get them out.

We were recently put in a situation where we found out (three days before initiation) that some of our new girls had been bullying other ones pretty intensely, to the point where several wanted to drop. Because our president had kept it a secret from the chapter, we found out very late and were basically told, "it's too late to do anything. Just suck it up." Each girl that was a problem has CONTINUED to be a problem in our chapter, and we would be significantly better off without. But at some point, you can't revoke real membership without a very real reason...and "being someone that everyone in all GLCs hates, giving us a bad name with your attitude and making us look like bitches" don't really cut it.

If we had been able to drop them in a moment's notice while they were new members, our entire chapter would be better off.

THAT is just effed up.

[BrandNewAdvisor]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

On top of that, since our Greek Life Adviser on campus gets a cash bonus for placing all girls who go through recruitment, we can be (and have been) given mandatory QAs and snap bids.

Wow that's just awful.

One year we had this PNM with a horrible reputation come through, serious coke problem, grade risk and a revolving bedroom door. The girl needed rehab way more than a sorority. All of the sororities cut her on the first night, unheard of at my uncompetitive school. Each head of recruitment got a phone call (at 4am!) from our Greek Life Adviser asking us to change our minds and telling us how horrible we are to all cut this girl. I may have said no, the chapter has made a decision already and hung up in the middle of her lecture.

We can drop new members, but it's a long and complicated process. It needs to be started the 2nd or 3rd week of the new member period to get all the signatures and bring it up to the regional level in time. We had two girls one year that were not showing up without excuses and overall being irresponsible we (on advice of the chapter advisor) waited until 3 weeks until initiation and we couldn't get rid of them. They desistered not even a month after initiation.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

On top of that, since our Greek Life Adviser on campus gets a cash bonus for placing all girls who go through recruitment, we can be (and have been) given mandatory QAs and snap bids. Don't like it? Too bad. You don't get the option to refuse them. At all. So we get stuck with girls who are wet blankets, who can't put together a coherent sentence, who drink like fish or who have slept with every Sigma Pi on the block and think it makes them cool....and we have no way to get them out.

Holy isht. Does your HQ know about this? (I forget, are you the only national on your campus?)

More to the point, do parents paying tuition (and whose students may have zip interest in Greek life) know that this may be where their money is going?

[ThetaPrincess24]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Holy isht. Does your HQ know about this? (I forget, are you the only national on your campus?)

More to the point, do parents paying tuition (and whose students may have zip interest in Greek life) know that this may be where their money is going?

I find that to be rather outrageous as well.

[fantASTic]

Thanks for the sympathy, everyone. I agree; it's messed. up.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Holy isht. Does your HQ know about this? (I forget, are you the only national on your campus?)

More to the point, do parents paying tuition (and whose students may have zip interest in Greek life) know that this may be where their money is going?

We are NOT the only national on our campus; we have a reasonably large PHC. I have no idea how much the cash bonus is, but even a $50 bonus is too much; this is your job! You should not get a bonus for placing people!

We get HUGE pressure to not cut ANYONE; last year, I think we cut about 5 girls total (not including a girl who had rushed for the FOURTH TIME). And trust me, we got a phone call from the GLA: "How could you do that? You need to pare that list down. You should not be cutting any more than 3 people! This means they might not place!" Keep in mind, we had over 200 girls going through recruitment; not a small number.

I would LOVE for our Nationals to step in...maybe I'll send something off. Who would that go to, though??

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

Thanks for the sympathy, everyone. I agree; it's messed. up.



We are NOT the only national on our campus; we have a reasonably large PHC. I have no idea how much the cash bonus is, but even a $50 bonus is too much; this is your job! You should not get a bonus for placing people!

We get HUGE pressure to not cut ANYONE; last year, I think we cut about 5 girls total (not including a girl who had rushed for the FOURTH TIME). And trust me, we got a phone call from the GLA: "How could you do that? You need to pare that list down. You should not be cutting any more than 3 people! This means they might not place!" Keep in mind, we had over 200 girls going through recruitment; not a small number.

I would LOVE for our Nationals to step in...maybe I'll send something off. Who would that go to, though??

Your NPC delegate. Every chapter on campus needs to contact their NPC delegate. That should NOT be happening. Your GLA needs the boot.

[33girl]

I would say your NPC delegate AND your national VP of operations (whatever that's called in AST-land). Ditto all the other groups. Oh, and grab your NPC area advisor while you're at it. This is completely unacceptable.

[denitta]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Holy isht. Does your HQ know about this? (I forget, are you the only national on your campus?)

More to the point, do parents paying tuition (and whose students may have zip interest in Greek life) know that this may be where their money is going?

You *have* to take your QA's and snap bids? Are the QA's anywhere on your bid lists? Are you using RFM...i know some of our chapters balk about being told not to cut more than X women (due to RFM statistics, cutting more would make them not meet quota, etc) but they *can* still cut more than what's recommended (though cutting off their nose to spite their face so to speak)...wondering what area you are in? I agree with the other posters about contacting your I/HQ or NPC rep (or even the NPC advisor assigned to your school) to review what's going on.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by denitta

You *have* to take your QA's and snap bids? Are the QA's anywhere on your bid lists? Are you using RFM...i know some of our chapters balk about being told not to cut more than X women (due to RFM statistics, cutting more would make them not meet quota, etc) but they *can* still cut more than what's recommended (though cutting off their nose to spite their face so to speak)...wondering what area you are in? I agree with the other posters about contacting your I/HQ or NPC rep (or even the NPC advisor assigned to your school) to review what's going on.

Yes, we have to take the QAs and snap bids. They are put in alphabetical order with the girls who were NOT snap/QAs, so unless we took out a copy of our list and compared it and found the X # of people above quota that were lowest on our list that we got, we would not know who was what. We actually agreed to, because of being unable to cut, not take any QAs beyond a certain point on our list if we made quota before that. We went well over quota (more than any other chapter) and the GLA refused to allow us to not take those girls.

We do use RFM at our campus. However, when this happened last fall, we were coming INTO recruitment at just BARELY below total, and larger than other chapters. There is a lot of pressure for us to cut no one because of RFM; however, it ends up biting us in the long run because the girls we got that we DID NOT WANT are:

a). Unhappy
b). make us unhappy
c). Hurt us in rush the next year, because they are awkward and do NOT represent the rest of the chapter.

[poeticlicense]

So studying is not a valid reason not to attend a social function? Oh please. My daughter is in sorority and there are social events, including mixers she cannot attend because indeed she is studying, on *gasp* a Saturday night. She is a 3rd year student majoring in Chemical Engineering, so she pretty much studies all the time, including weekends. I cannot believe that I am reading statements like a have read on this thread ragging on girls who choose to study instead of attend a mixer. I thought getting an education was why these girls are in college.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by poeticlicense

So studying is not a valid reason not to attend a social function? Oh please. My daughter is in sorority and there are social events, including mixers she cannot attend because indeed she is studying, on *gasp* a Saturday night. She is a 3rd year student majoring in Chemical Engineering, so she pretty much studies all the time, including weekends. I cannot believe that I am reading statements like a have read on this thread ragging on girls who choose to study instead of attend a mixer. I thought getting an education was why these girls are in college.

QFP.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by poeticlicense

So studying is not a valid reason not to attend a social function? Oh please. My daughter is in sorority and there are social events, including mixers she cannot attend because indeed she is studying, on *gasp* a Saturday night. She is a 3rd year student majoring in Chemical Engineering, so she pretty much studies all the time, including weekends. I cannot believe that I am reading statements like a have read on this thread ragging on girls who choose to study instead of attend a mixer. I thought getting an education was why these girls are in college.

You can skip a mixer if you want (at least in my chapter), I think the point that was being made is that by continually skipping fun events to study, you're not getting the full experience.

Now if something is a mandatory event like chapter, studying is not an excuse. Many times, girls have PLENTY of time outside of class and sorority events to study, but don't use their time wisely (ex: that hour you spent on Facebook=potential study time.) Then they whine about not having time to study. You need to bugdet your time so that you can study and attend events.

[angels&angles]

Originally Posted by poeticlicense

So studying is not a valid reason not to attend a social function? Oh please. My daughter is in sorority and there are social events, including mixers she cannot attend because indeed she is studying, on *gasp* a Saturday night. She is a 3rd year student majoring in Chemical Engineering, so she pretty much studies all the time, including weekends. I cannot believe that I am reading statements like a have read on this thread ragging on girls who choose to study instead of attend a mixer. I thought getting an education was why these girls are in college.

I think everyone knows which girls are in majors that require them to study all time, which girls have a huge project due that week, and which girls wasted all their time on facebook/at the house/drinking. not to mention which girls think the fraternity they're mixing with is below them (or not their boyfriend's frat, where they want to hang out) and think that claiming they're studying is a way to get off scot free. And then they "study" (facebook) for an hour and then go out.

Plus, the girls that do study all the time often use the mixer as a welcome break. Show up in minimal costume and maybe only for an hour. Have one drink max. But everyone knows that they've worked hard to get this hour off, and appreciate it.

There's a difference between not making it because you need to study, and making time in your studying to get to do the fun things you pay money for. sometimes you have to miss a mixer because you just have to (sometimes, if you're me, you know if you plan to go out only for an hour, you'll be there until 3am. But everyone knew if I missed a mixer, it was serious )

What I really hated were the girls who deliberately planned things to coincide with the events they didn't like. We always had to come back from winter break a few days early so for work week and recruitment. But every year, some of the girls would by plane tickets for the day before classes started "because they didn't know the dates and needed to buy tickets early." I always tried to call BS (I lived way farther than them, I had to buy tickets too, and somehow I always managed to get there for work week). It drove me crazy, but my chapter refused to fine them because they had nonrefundable plane tickets. (These girls eventually became Rho Gams, which took care of the problem to some extent, and the chapter fines more harshly now, I believe).

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by angels&angles

I think everyone knows which girls are in majors that require them to study all time, which girls have a huge project due that week, and which girls wasted all their time on facebook/at the house/drinking. not to mention which girls think the fraternity they're mixing with is below them (or not their boyfriend's frat, where they want to hang out) and think that claiming they're studying is a way to get off scot free. And then they "study" (facebook) for an hour and then go out.

Plus, the girls that do study all the time often use the mixer as a welcome break. Show up in minimal costume and maybe only for an hour. Have one drink max. But everyone knows that they've worked hard to get this hour off, and appreciate it.

There's a difference between not making it because you need to study, and making time in your studying to get to do the fun things you pay money for. sometimes you have to miss a mixer because you just have to (sometimes, if you're me, you know if you plan to go out only for an hour, you'll be there until 3am. But everyone knew if I missed a mixer, it was serious )

What I really hated were the girls who deliberately planned things to coincide with the events they didn't like. We always had to come back from winter break a few days early so for work week and recruitment. But every year, some of the girls would by plane tickets for the day before classes started "because they didn't know the dates and needed to buy tickets early." I always tried to call BS (I lived way farther than them, I had to buy tickets too, and somehow I always managed to get there for work week). It drove me crazy, but my chapter refused to fine them because they had nonrefundable plane tickets. (These girls eventually became Rho Gams, which took care of the problem to some extent, and the chapter fines more harshly now, I believe).

Someone else said it, but perhaps there DOES need to be more education that being a member IS a commitment, but if you organize your time, you can fit in most of the stuff you want to. Would it help to offer a "Study Skills" class to new members? Yes, it's something ELSE to do, but a few hours' worth of tricks and tips can make a real difference. Or petition the college to start such a class for freshman. Maybe during orientation. I don't know the right answer, but having taken such a class during freshman year of HIGH SCHOOL, I knew way ahead of time how to effectively study, how to organize fun time and work time, and to make sure I had "free time" to just relax.

ETA: Do members now have "study buddies"? When I pledged, every group had a program like this. They paired a younger and older member (grade year, not initiation year) and studied together at the library a certain # of hours a week. I think 2 "buddy" hours were mandatory (pledges also had other "whenever study hours at the library) and for grade risks, there was more time. It was a built-in time to get busy work or research done (I know you can't do mandatory PLEDGE activities but if EVERYONE participated...). A lot of girls were thankful for the "mandatory" time, though a few chose to chit chat. They finally passed a no-talking rule (outside of talking about school work) for those two hours. For those who felt that they "don't need it", they could be a "buddy" who helped another girl, or find something to work on productively. I am betting that just about any college student could find school work to do for two hours in a library (even if most of their stuff was lab work or done elsewhere). After all, you ARE there for an education, and this is a way to help everyone find time to get work done. These days, you'd have to implement no cells or FB, but that might be hard to monitor. Oh wait, your buddy could do that!