House passes health care bill on 219-212 vote

[PrettyBoy]

I don't have much to say on it, but based on all the protesting, I sure hope nobody gets shot over this.

Rodney has something to say too.

[AGDee]

The other advantage to those who are already insured that I don't believe has been mentioned, is the ability for parents to keep their kids on their insurance until the age of 26. This means I can actually insure my kids until they finish grad school, which is a wonderful bonus.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by AGDee

The other advantage to those who are already insured that I don't believe has been mentioned, is the ability for parents to keep their kids on their insurance until the age of 26. This means I can actually insure my kids until they finish grad school, which is a wonderful bonus.

But, don't insurance policies in most states cover dependents as long as they are students? It's not as if you get dropped the minute you turn 18 or 22. Even so, colleges offer insurance for students. When I was in grad school, I think it was something like $1400 for a full year of insurance with Aetna, which happened to be the insurer my father's company had when I was dropped at 25.

The 26 cut-off doesn't impress me that much because so many states offer it until 25 even if you're not a student and if you are, you can get lower cost insurance through your school.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

But, don't insurance policies in most states cover dependents as long as they are students? It's not as if you get dropped the minute you turn 18 or 22. Even so, colleges offer insurance for students. When I was in grad school, I think it was something like $1400 for a full year of insurance with Aetna, which happened to be the insurer my father's company had when I was dropped at 25.

The 26 cut-off doesn't impress me that much because so many states offer it until 25 even if you're not a student and if you are, you can get lower cost insurance through your school.

Right..as long as they are a dependent AND a student.

Some places and some insurances have a stipulation that the moment the sudent is making an income, they are no longer considered a 'covered dependent'.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

But, don't insurance policies in most states cover dependents as long as they are students? It's not as if you get dropped the minute you turn 18 or 22. Even so, colleges offer insurance for students. When I was in grad school, I think it was something like $1400 for a full year of insurance with Aetna, which happened to be the insurer my father's company had when I was dropped at 25.

The 26 cut-off doesn't impress me that much because so many states offer it until 25 even if you're not a student and if you are, you can get lower cost insurance through your school.

Fully agree. I am getting another degree and can be on my parents' insurance until I'm 25. And the school does offer low cost insurance plans for students...in fact part of our student facilities fees go towards a plan that covers the basics for every student. The only advantage I see would be for a recent grad school graduate who needed a little extra time to afford the insurance or find a job that provided it.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Fully agree. I am getting another degree and can be on my parents' insurance until I'm 25. And the school does offer low cost insurance plans for students...in fact part of our student facilities fees go towards a plan that covers the basics for every student. The only advantage I see would be for a recent grad school graduate who needed a little extra time to afford the insurance or find a job that provided it.

Most of the student insurance plans cover you for 12 months so you're covered from September 1-August 31. Assuming a mid-May graduation, that gives you at least a few months to find a job and get coverage (this is what happened to me). Even if you do need temporary coverage at the end of that time, you can usually get it through the school (or your alumni association) for a higher cost than if you were still a student, but for far less than going on the open market.

Does anyone actually think that the bill as it stands now will be implemented any time soon? I certainly don't, other than some of the immediate changes. We're (on both sides) getting all excited over something that's going to be very different in practice than in action.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Does anyone actually think that the bill as it stands now will be implemented any time soon? I certainly don't, other than some of the immediate changes. We're (on both sides) getting all excited over something that's going to be very different in practice than in action.

Everything that I have seen/read has been very clear that some provisions (like those concerning pre-existing conditions and children staying covered until 26) will be effective within 6 months, while others will not go into effect until 2014 or later.

[DaemonSeid]

Amazing, people are being investigated because of death threats they made via twitter after the bill passed.

link

[chickenoodle]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Amazing, people are being investigated because of death threats they made via twitter after the bill passed.

link

Death threats? Really?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by chickenoodle

Death threats? Really?

Rearlly

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Amazing, people are being investigated because of death threats they made via twitter after the bill passed.

link

Yeah, you didn't need a crystal ball to know that was coming.

There have been racial slurs and spitting at Black politicians; and homosexual slurs at the openly gay politician. That's how it goes when otherwise "nice people who aren't prejudiced, bigoted, or even homophobic or racist" perceive some sense of threat to group status and positioning. Hence, the "-isms" aren't about "bad people" or just about prejudice and bigotry.

So, I knew when I heard about the slurs yesterday that death threats were next. These people are attempting the social control/constraint mechanisms that have been attempted during every social change (perceived crisis).

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

Oh and SAKO. Shut the hell up and leave this discussion. If you are who I think you are you have been banned a kajillion times.

Which is why we should all ignore him and not feed him.

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

I am not so sure our Army and Navy are that well run from an efficiency stand point. Do you not believe there are billions upon billions of dollars in waste and fraud within the services?

I'm quite sure there's inefficiency. That wasn't the point. At all.

The point is: there can be inefficieny in the public sector and in the private sector. Nevertheless, there are some things more appropriately entrusted to the government to run, some things more appropriately left to the private sector and some things about which people can reasonably disagree (without being socialists, totalitarianists, hyper-free market capitalists, etc.). The claim that if the government runs it, it is automatically worse or more inefficient is a dodge that avoids dealing with the real issues.

If the military is beset with waste and fraud, is the answer to address that waste and fraud and try to stop it or to privatize the military on the assumption that the waste and fraud will disappear? Which is in the country's best interests?

To your point on private insurance carriers they are just that, private. If they can justify to their stockholders the Executives pay then so be it. I am not pleased about the disparity between what the person at the top makes versus the person at the bottom but that is for the companies and their stock holders to sort through.

Call me crazy, but I have a real problem with that business model when it affects the premiums I have to pay and the health care I and my family receive.

Originally Posted by Gatorbaby

Ladies..and gentlemen...please, please trust Federalism. Already, 37 (or 39?) states have filed suit against the national government. The balance between the national and state powers has not been struck and many states are upset (rightfully so) concerning the passage of this bill and the powers given to the national government under it.

Just because they sue doesn't mean they'll win. Anyone can sue. While I'll readily admit I haven't looked at all the issues that might be raised, I have a gut sense that these lawsuits are going to be a waste of state dollars at a time most states don't have too many dollars to waste.

ETA: Any legal challenges will be to specific aspects of the bill, not to the bill as a whole. Those states that have announced that they may sue have mainly indicated that they will attack the mandate that each person have insurance or be fined; that is the aspect of the bill the pundits and think tanks/legal foundations seem to be attacking and encouraging suit on. Perhaps ironically, the individual mandate aspect of the bill is quite similar to Republican proposals from the 1990s and to Mitt Romney's Masschusett's plan.

Meanwhile, this is a good read: Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles: Not All Opponents Confident of Repeal, by David Weigel.

Originally Posted by moe.ron

David Frum's take on the political fall out:

I saw that earlier and thought it was interesting.

[als463]

Originally Posted by rasputn

ObamaCare is all about helping the niggers that are too lazy to go to school and get jobs. Most niggers don't even take care of their own kids. What do they contribute to society? We would be better off without them.

Rasputn, while I agree with some of your sentiments, it seems you are being a bit harsh. What I agree with is that ObamaCare is all about helping the LAZY PEOPLE that are too lazy to go to school and get jobs. Most LAZY PEOPLE don't take care of their kids. What do they (the LAZY PEOPLE) contribute to society? We would be better off without them (the LAZY PEOPLE).

Now, when I say lazy people, I mean people who have "lived" off welfare and made it a family tradition. It is one thing to need a little bit of help. I understand that. I do know, however, many people who have almost "passed the torch" to the next generation regarding the great benefits they receive on the 1st and 15th of every month. I've seen people on welfare clothing their children in namebrand clothes while feeding them ice cream for dinner and getting them the newest X-Box game, while co-workers who were Caseworkers/ Counselors could barely afford to buy their children a new winter coat because they had to pay off their COLLEGE loans. It disgusts me.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by als463

Rasputn, while I agree with some of your sentiments, it seems you are being a bit harsh.

Raputn = madmax. Seriously, we've all got to learn to stop responding to him. He'll be banned (for the, what, 25th time?) and all his posts will be deleted soon enough. Maybe, just maybe, if we ignore him he'll stop coming back again and again and again and again and again . . . .

[DaemonSeid]

18 Immediate effects of the Bill


Gotta love the one on tanning salons!