Tom Delay: People Are Unemployed Because They Want To Be

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Well, if you knew that'd fix your jobless problems and you decided against it, whose decision was that?

OK, if you want me to be a nurse and be responsible for the care of your loved ones - while hating every stinking second of it - I'm there, dude. Fortunately, I care about other people too much to be their nurse or educate their children. I'm a little more self aware than that.

Not everyone is suited for every job. In some jobs, this is just an annoyance. In others, it can be LIFE THREATENING.

Originally Posted by Kevin

I worked retail for 9 years (while knowing I had a position waiting for me when I got out of law school). I'm pretty familiar with working at a job I detest (and know is only temporary).

Fixed your post for you.

[libramunoz]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Paying the bills comes before self-actualization. For most folks, if that's what they expect out of the job market, they'll be waiting a very, very long time.

And in the final analysis, what the heck difference does it make what I did, what my situation is or whether I'm a sympathetic soul? None of those weigh in on whether someone could possibly be at least partially responsible for their own plight.

Well Kevin, so you are now a Social Worker and understand Maslow's Heirarchy of needs. Well not so wise Budda, please tell me, what is the first of the heirarchy of needs? Let me clue you in, it's physiological--that includes those of food, clothing, and shelter. Duh!


So therefore, you're theory doesn't really pan out about paying the bills coming before self-actualization. Why, it's very simple, most people rarely, if ever, reach the level of self-actulization. Moreover, if the first two heirarchy of needs AREN'T met, then the person being ABLE to even reach self-actulization, is next to damn near impossible!

Therefore, what I am saying to you is very simple, if I cannot meet my basic needs, those which are primary to my survival, how then can I begin to reach the level of a need that doesn't help me at this point and time.

Self-actulization comes when a person is feeling that their basic needs are met, when they feel secure, when they feel like they are where or at a point of belonging, and where they can begin to feel like they have self-esteem.

Yes, paying the bills does come before self-actulization, however, in order to reach the level of self-actulization, you have to have the esteem that you need from within. I'm sorry, when you suddenly become unemployed, a river washes over you and I am sorry, your basic needs get slammed right in front of your face. And the previous heirarchy levels that you may have met BEFORE, quickly vanish when you are faced with not being able to have your physiological needs met.

That's simple, that's not complex, that's understandable, but I doubt that it's something that you're going to ever get or even comprehend.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I worked retail for 9 years. I'm pretty familiar with working at a job I detest. Did it suck? Yes. Did it add about a year to my undergrad? Yep. Did it pay the bills? Sure did. Would I do it again? No doubt. Beats the heck outta living on credit. Liking what you are doing is a luxury not everyone gets to have. Paying the bills comes before self-actualization. For most folks, if that's what they expect out of the job market, they'll be waiting a very, very long time.

you...were...a...collegiate...and...collegiates... can...get...the...job...you...had...
more...than...college...graduates...can.....

This is a discussion of general unemployment with no consideration to age, race, gender, social class, education level, income level, family responsibilities, etc. "If A then B." I want you to dig back in that intro-level course and find the "...and sometimes C."

I think we ALL understand that we have some level of choice and responsibility even is something isn't completely our doing/fault. That's also what Anthony Giddens' "structuration theory" (structure and agency) is about. We aren't robots, but are agents of choice even in the social structure. But, if that basic understanding of humanity is what you're stuck on then I feel really sorry for you. Many many many years ago I had a similar "you should've chosen better" approach to some social issues and then I took my head out of my ass and observed the social world.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Kevin

If you're only interviewing once per month or every other month, you're not trying hard enough or you need to move to where the jobs are or you need to pick a new profession. Truth. I don't care where you are -- there are more jobs out there than an interview in December and one in February.

I usually enjoy reading your posts, but you're clearly out of touch with reality.

[libramunoz]

Originally Posted by Kevin

If you're only interviewing once per month or every other month, you're not trying hard enough or you need to move to where the jobs are or you need to pick a new profession. Truth. I don't care where you are -- there are more jobs out there than an interview in December and one in February.

Kevin you must have the brainpower of a gnat because that's where your level of thinking is.

If people have tried to explain it to you fifteen different ways to Sunday, you just WANT to remain clueless.

As far as picking a new profession, going back to school, getting new school loans, and getting another profession, I guess you're right, I should, because obviously an AA trumps a Master's.

I know that you don't care where I am and that there are more jobs just floating around out there. Good, I guess I'll just jump the hell up, grab my shotgun, and get me one of them. Yeah, that'll do the trick. Oh by the way, when I need a lawyer, will you be mine?

As far as trying hard enough, WHO IN THE HELL ARE YOU TO TELL ME THAT I HAVEN'T TRIED HARD ENOUGH??? WHO IN THE HELL ARE YOU TO TELL ME WHAT I HAVE AND HAVEN'T DONE ENOUGH OF TO GET A JOB? WHO IN THE HELL ARE YOU?

Because from what I have seen, you are someone with the brain of a gnat, with the compassion of a snake, and with the humility of eel. So Mr. Grinch, how is your Christmas going to be this year?

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by libramunoz

Kevin you must have the brainpower of a gnat because that's where your level of thinking is.

lol
o.k that was hilarious, but I do agree with a lot of what Kevin is saying.

[als463]

I don't really understand why everyone is taking what Kevin has said so personally. I agree with a lot of what he is saying. Here are some options, so I can contribute to this discussion without being told I haven't given any solutions to the problem.

1.) If you are "over-qualified" (because, as someone with an A.A., 2 B.A.s and an M.Ed., I have been told the same thing) maybe you could work on "fixing" your resume to reflect having one down of your actual degree. Meaning, if you have a Masters, maybe your potential employer only needs to know about your Bachelor's degree.

2.) There are some jobs out there that people don't want to take. I get that. Many people are losing out on Civil Service jobs to prior military. Solution: Why not consider checking out the military. As former military, I can tell you that, for the most part, the military is always looking to hire.

3.) You don't have enough education? Maybe you could consider going back to school. For some people, that might suck. I get that, but you have to make a move one way or another to get yourself out of that situation.

When I first moved to NY, I had a job within 2 weeks. I had NO PREVIOUS experience (completely) in that field and I didn't know one person in the city. I sent out 40+ applications in a 2-week span and I got called back for maybe 5-10 interviews. It worked out.

Now, I have gone back to school, again.

I just don't think people need to chew him up and spit him out. It is a harsh reality, but maybe people are choosing you to work for them because your degree isn't very sought after or they are looking for people who went to top schools when maybe you didn't go to that great of a school. Maybe your GPA was bad. I don't know. This is NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE. I'm just saying that if I lose out on a job to someone who went to a better school than me, I accept that. If I lose out to people with more experience, so be it.

I hope everyone finds a job that they truly enjoy.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by als463

I don't really understand why everyone is taking what Kevin has said so personally.

Perhaps because many of them actually have personal experience with the topic at hand, and their personal experience has taught them that it just ain't as simple or black-and-white as he makes it out to be.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Perhaps because many of them actually have personal experience with the topic at hand, and their personal experience has taught them that it just ain't as simple or black-and-white as he makes it out to be.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by als463

I don't really understand why everyone is taking what Kevin has said so personally. I agree with a lot of what he is saying. Here are some options, so I can contribute to this discussion without being told I haven't given any solutions to the problem.

1.) If you are "over-qualified" (because, as someone with an A.A., 2 B.A.s and an M.Ed., I have been told the same thing) maybe you could work on "fixing" your resume to reflect having one down of your actual degree. Meaning, if you have a Masters, maybe your potential employer only needs to know about your Bachelor's degree.

2.) There are some jobs out there that people don't want to take. I get that. Many people are losing out on Civil Service jobs to prior military. Solution: Why not consider checking out the military. As former military, I can tell you that, for the most part, the military is always looking to hire.

3.) You don't have enough education? Maybe you could consider going back to school. For some people, that might suck. I get that, but you have to make a move one way or another to get yourself out of that situation.

When I first moved to NY, I had a job within 2 weeks. I had NO PREVIOUS experience (completely) in that field and I didn't know one person in the city. I sent out 40+ applications in a 2-week span and I got called back for maybe 5-10 interviews. It worked out.

Now, I have gone back to school, again.

I just don't think people need to chew him up and spit him out. It is a harsh reality, but maybe people are choosing you to work for them because your degree isn't very sought after or they are looking for people who went to top schools when maybe you didn't go to that great of a school. Maybe your GPA was bad. I don't know. This is NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE. I'm just saying that if I lose out on a job to someone who went to a better school than me, I accept that. If I lose out to people with more experience, so be it.

I hope everyone finds a job that they truly enjoy.

1) You don't think a background check will bring up the fact that you have more education than your resume states? Even if you do "dumb down" your resume, several employers are looking for either executives or hourly employees. If you're used to being a mid-level employee, you're SOL.

2) That's not always that easy, either. My sister graduated with an amazing GPA and had plans to become an officer in the AF upon graduation. Once she graduated, she was forced to enlist and will only be eligible for officer status after a year or so.

On top of that, a lot of people wouldn't fit in with the military lifestyle. Of course, it's an option, but don't try to act like I can just up and join the military tomorrow if I wanted to.

3) Lack of education isn't really the topic at hand. Most of the time, those are the people getting the jobs (since employers can pay them lower wages). It's the people with education that are having a hard time, as they're constantly being told they're overqualified (for lower level jobs) or not qualified (for executive level jobs). There's not a lot of middle ground anymore.

Again, some folks here are clearly out of touch with reality.

[als463]

I don't think it puts you out of touch with reality if you suggest that people look at alternative options. It took me 2 weeks to find a job, only after sending out 40+ resumes. That is what it took. Did I enjoy sending them out, only to hear that I was "over-qualifed" or not qualifed enough? No. That sucked.

Once I graduated college, I took a job as a caseworker. I made about $19,000 a year, once taxes were deducted. Instead of going on Spring Break my senior year of college, I chose to take my week and head over to the State Capitol to take every civil service exam for which I qualifed. It paid off. Sure, I made horrible money. I loved my job, though. Then I went back for my Masters.

As I worked on my Masters, I left my full-time job and worked for about $7.00/ hr. (part-time, so I could attend graduate school full-time) while being talked down to by people with far less education than me (some who had no degree, at all) to make ends meet. That job was horrible. I hated how rude people were and catty some of my co-workers were. I did my job, and I left. No less, no more. I was "over-qualified" for the job, but I was hired to work part-time because I was honest with the employer letting them know that I was going to school full-time.

My employers have been impressed with my resume and all the things I have done because even when I wasn't working, I was doing community service and doing things with my GLO as an Alumna.

I'm not saying it is easy, but I feel like people are really ripping Kevin a part because he thinks some people may not be trying very hard.

To Knight_Shadow, if you couldn't find a job and the only thing being offered was a military position, if you don't take it (and you are qualified for it) then that is your fault for not doing what you need to do in order to make a living. My uncle, a college professor, always told me that he didn't believe people (in this day and age) had ANY excuse for not having a college degree because if they were able-bodied, they could join the military and apply for loans if that is what it took. Do you think I LOVED being in the military? Nope. I did it, though. If you have kids (which I don't, yet) then you have to set aside your pride and take what comes your way.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by als463

To Knight_Shadow, if you couldn't find a job and the only thing being offered was a military position, if you don't take it (and you are qualified for it) then that is your fault for not doing what you need to do in order to make a living. My uncle, a college professor, always told me that he didn't believe people (in this day and age) had ANY excuse for not having a college degree because if they were able-bodied, they could join the military and apply for loans if that is what it took. Do you think I LOVED being in the military? Nope. I did it, though.

So You would trust your life to somebody who only joined the military because he couldn't get a civilian job? I hate all the people who promote the military as a job that is always hiring. It should be something you are passionate for, not something you are forced into.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by als463

I don't think it puts you out of touch with reality if you suggest that people look at alternative options. It took me 2 weeks to find a job, only after sending out 40+ resumes. That is what it took. Did I enjoy sending them out, only to hear that I was "over-qualifed" or not qualifed enough? No. That sucked.

Once I graduated college, I took a job as a caseworker. I made about $19,000 a year, once taxes were deducted. Instead of going on Spring Break my senior year of college, I chose to take my week and head over to the State Capitol to take every civil service exam for which I qualifed. It paid off. Sure, I made horrible money. I loved my job, though. Then I went back for my Masters.

As I worked on my Masters, I left my full-time job and worked for about $7.00/ hr. (part-time, so I could attend graduate school full-time) while being talked down to by people with far less education than me (some who had no degree, at all) to make ends meet. That job was horrible. I hated how rude people were and catty some of my co-workers were. I did my job, and I left. No less, no more. I was "over-qualified" for the job, but I was hired to work part-time because I was honest with the employer letting them know that I was going to school full-time.

My employers have been impressed with my resume and all the things I have done because even when I wasn't working, I was doing community service and doing things with my GLO as an Alumna.

I'm not saying it is easy, but I feel like people are really ripping Kevin a part because he thinks some people may not be trying very hard.

To Knight_Shadow, if you couldn't find a job and the only thing being offered was a military position, if you don't take it (and you are qualified for it) then that is your fault for not doing what you need to do in order to make a living. My uncle, a college professor, always told me that he didn't believe people (in this day and age) had ANY excuse for not having a college degree because if they were able-bodied, they could join the military and apply for loans if that is what it took. Do you think I LOVED being in the military? Nope. I did it, though. If you have kids (which I don't, yet) then you have to set aside your pride and take what comes your way.

Two questions:

1. In what year did you get the job that quickly?

2. Did you have any non-$7/hr experience when you were applying for your positions (outside of military service)?

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by als463

I'm not saying it is easy, but I feel like people are really ripping Kevin a part because he thinks some people may not be trying very hard.
.

Yep. I agree.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by als463

I don't think it puts you out of touch with reality if you suggest that people look at alternative options. It took me 2 weeks to find a job, only after sending out 40+ resumes. That is what it took. Did I enjoy sending them out, only to hear that I was "over-qualifed" or not qualifed enough? No. That sucked.

Once I graduated college, I took a job as a caseworker. I made about $19,000 a year, once taxes were deducted. Instead of going on Spring Break my senior year of college, I chose to take my week and head over to the State Capitol to take every civil service exam for which I qualifed. It paid off. Sure, I made horrible money. I loved my job, though. Then I went back for my Masters.

As I worked on my Masters, I left my full-time job and worked for about $7.00/ hr. (part-time, so I could attend graduate school full-time) while being talked down to by people with far less education than me (some who had no degree, at all) to make ends meet. That job was horrible. I hated how rude people were and catty some of my co-workers were. I did my job, and I left. No less, no more. I was "over-qualified" for the job, but I was hired to work part-time because I was honest with the employer letting them know that I was going to school full-time.

My employers have been impressed with my resume and all the things I have done because even when I wasn't working, I was doing community service and doing things with my GLO as an Alumna.

I'm not saying it is easy, but I feel like people are really ripping Kevin a part because he thinks some people may not be trying very hard.

To Knight_Shadow, if you couldn't find a job and the only thing being offered was a military position, if you don't take it (and you are qualified for it) then that is your fault for not doing what you need to do in order to make a living. My uncle, a college professor, always told me that he didn't believe people (in this day and age) had ANY excuse for not having a college degree because if they were able-bodied, they could join the military and apply for loans if that is what it took. Do you think I LOVED being in the military? Nope. I did it, though. If you have kids (which I don't, yet) then you have to set aside your pride and take what comes your way.

als,

I want to say thank you for sticking up for Kevin the way you did. I think you helped explain the points he was trying to make very well. I also thought he got needlessly flamed, then again, I fully understood, and I daresay, agree with what he was trying to convey, though he didn't make it very clear, and I think that was why he got flamed.

As for your post here, it serves as a testimony to your tenacity and commitment to find and maintain work. Working a crappy job you can't stand takes a lot of guts and a lot of heart. Been there, done that. And yes, I am also without a job, per se; I'm starting a consulting firm. What am I doing in the meantime?

What else! Street accounting, hey sometimes I have to take it to the streets, literally: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfcZpAVXfew

[33girl]

Originally Posted by als463

Solution: Why not consider checking out the military. As former military, I can tell you that, for the most part, the military is always looking to hire.

I love you hon, but oh hellz no. If there's a job I'm less suited for than health care, it's the military. I'd be dishonorably discharged approximately 3 minutes after arriving in camp.