Tom Delay: People Are Unemployed Because They Want To Be - Page 14

DaemonSeid · #1 03-12-2010, 11:26 AM

SMH that you really want to try to debate this with me.

I don't do brick walls.

Kevin · #2 03-12-2010, 04:15 PM

Where I'm from, it's no gamble. You'll do better than retail wages, period. Could be different over there. I dunno. Otherise, substitute teaching would be much smarter than retail -- it's something to do when you're not in court or with clients, but you're flexible enough to still be able to practice law.

MysticCat · #3 03-12-2010, 08:55 PM

Good lord, I'm away for two days and this thread just gets wreckier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Been watching the thread for awhile now. The bolded text is where I'm at. I understand the excuses I'm hearing, but I don't consider them valid. When libra (for example) said she's only had two interviews in the course of three months, yet doesn't feel she's responsible at all for her financial situation, I understood that she felt as if she had no responsibility for her situation, but I disagreed.

And do you really not see why that disagreement seems a bit . . . presumptious since you know nothing about her situation except what she has posted here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

So you say you're choosing to stay home to take care of your parents rather than casting a wider net? That's the point it is your choice. You are responsible. I'm not judging you or saying you're a bad person, but you have to admit some complicity in your situation. It's not your fault that Michigan is a bad place to be at the moment, but it is your fault that you choose to stay there. In fact, your decision aside from that is pretty laudable. You put your family ahead of your career. Good for you, but you did that.

Kevin, if your parents are in the situation where they need your care, then let me know how much of a true choice you think it really is. Sometimes it may be a true choice, but often it's Hobson's choice.

Munchkin03 · #4 03-19-2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Where I'm from, it's no gamble. You'll do better than retail wages, period. Could be different over there. I dunno. Otherwise, substitute teaching would be much smarter than retail -- it's something to do when you're not in court or with clients, but you're flexible enough to still be able to practice law.

Again, it really depends on where you are. In NYC, substitute teaching requires a lot of requirements that even the typical college grad doesn't have. Even after you fill those requirements (which isn't instant), it's no guarantee that you'll ever be called in--there are a lot of subs and each principal has their list of people. If you're not certified, there's a cap of how many days you can work. I had no idea that it was much harder to sub here; where I grew up, a lot of people (especially military wives who couldn't get into the school system) subbed regularly and it wasn't that difficult. I'm not sure if DC is the same, but I'd imagine it's closer to NYC in that regard than OKC.

Sometimes you just have to go for the stable paycheck. I doubt it's a permanent thing for Mel's husband anyway--he did really well in law school and the DC market is just saturated right now.

Virtually every attorney I know in NYC, DC, Boston, or Philly, other than some of my clients who are partners, has been laid off or had hours reduced. It will probably get better and most with enough experience are working for themselves right now, but it's not pretty.

KSUViolet06 · #5 03-19-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Sometimes you just have to go for the stable paycheck.

This.

Are you going to LOVE it? Probably not. But it keeps your bills paid while you're looking for something better.

Kevin · #6 03-12-2010, 11:09 PM

Choice nonetheless.

The premise I'm arguing against is that no one is culpable for their own demise in this economy.

Are some people's situations worse than others? No doubt. But I've seen damn near homeless folks scrape together the cash they needed for representation while still paying the bills. If a multi-time felon, semi-literate individual can make it, so can these apparently educated folks. They don't get my sympathy because no matter how bad they think they have it, I've seen people climb out of deeper holes.

PM_Mama00 · #7 03-12-2010, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatinaAlumna

It would make your ego feel much, much better if I said that I had a degree in one of those fields, wouldn't it?

I am completely comfortable having you conjure up stories about my life.

And, sorry, but you still haven't convinced me that you are successful. Try harder.

Actually, he is. I know him personally. I don't have to stick up for him, he can do that himself. But this argument isn't over what the topic covers, this is a pissing contest because you two disagree with each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

I really doubt you could do better working retail unless it's a really, really good retail job.

Things might be different in D.C., but I'm quite sure they have petty criminals who need to be pled out just like everyplace else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Where I'm from, it's no gamble. You'll do better than retail wages, period. Could be different over there. I dunno. Otherise, substitute teaching would be much smarter than retail -- it's something to do when you're not in court or with clients, but you're flexible enough to still be able to practice law.

You're contradicting yourself now. If he QUITS his retail job, he becomes UNEMPLOYED, but not eligible to collect UNEMPLOYMENT. Then, he can take the chance of finding cases? And if he gets none?

First you said retail is better than nothing. Now you're saying quit your retail job and take a chance. Which one is it?

LatinaAlumna · #8 03-13-2010, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Actually, he is. I know him personally. I don't have to stick up for him, he can do that himself. But this argument isn't over what the topic covers, this is a pissing contest because you two disagree with each other.

Relax. It's the internet. But you made me laugh, so it's okay.

MysticCat · #9 03-13-2010, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Otherwise, solo attorneys can do pretty well.

Sometimes. I know some who aren't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Choice nonetheless.

The premise I'm arguing against is that no one is culpable for their own demise in this economy.

Then you're arguing against a premise no one has advanced (we've all agreed that some people are quite cuplable and some people are somewhat culpable) by arguing the other extreme: that everyone is cuplable for their own demise in this economy, that unemployment simply means they're not trying hard enough. The premise I'm arguing against is that it is always that black-and-white, as cut-and-dry or simple as you make it out to be, that everyone could just find a job if they tried harder or made the right choices. Complicated problems just don't have simple answers like that. To quote H.L. Mencken, "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong."

Quote:

Are some people's situations worse than others? No doubt. But I've seen damn near homeless folks scrape together the cash they needed for representation while still paying the bills. If a multi-time felon, semi-literate individual can make it, so can these apparently educated folks. They don't get my sympathy because no matter how bad they think they have it, I've seen people climb out of deeper holes.

From your persective it's a deeper hole. Any chance your perspective is incomplete?

Kevin · #10 03-13-2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat

From your persective it's a deeper hole. Any chance your perspective is incomplete?

Want to trade places with a multiple-time felon with no home who has an addiction it'd be really easy to return to?

I sure as hell don't.

Kevin · #11 03-12-2010, 11:33 PM

Not a contradiction at all. Quit the retail job unless it's really, really good. Otherwise, solo attorneys can do pretty well.

RU OX Alum · #12 03-13-2010, 12:46 AM

Can I come be your paralegal? Or at least copy proofreader?

TitaniumGene · #13 03-13-2010, 12:49 AM

It's hard for me to tell if the conversation has strayed from my original post.

Kevin · #14 03-13-2010, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitaniumGene

It's hard for me to tell if the conversation has strayed from my original post.

Answer: yes.

Lasonja · #15 03-19-2010, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarence

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My dear Watson it has, for some reason seems as though people have tooking a turn on your post. Well let me help you bring it back. My thing is this, right now American is laying off so many people, its not even funny. Now when you ask are people not working cause they don't want to. I have to say NO and YES.

Some of americans are not working cause they can't get a dam job at least not one that is going to pay there mortgages for there house that they have had for the last 3-5 years. They wont find a job that will take care of there 4 kids plus one on the way. So when it comes to americans that are not working it might be because they got LAID OFF. You ever heard of Laid Off yah thats a messed up thing to have to go through. So many people loosing everything that they worked hard for. Now a Bum or a lazy ass, is one that doesn't want to work, in american your going to have people that don't want to work. Those are the people that don't care about making a dollar. They have no responsibilities no concerns about life so they just don't care. Sorry to say but yes its people in america that don't want to work. We call them LAZY. But and i say But lets not dog out the ones that do want to work but cant find a job