Tom Delay: People Are Unemployed Because They Want To Be

[Little32]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Ah yes. The trump card. Giving up.

Pathetic. You're right. Can't win, don't try.

Wow. You are an ass.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Ah yes. The trump card. Giving up.

Pathetic. You're right. Can't win, don't try.

I guess the silver spoon moved from your mouth to your ass.

[Kevin]

ADqPiMel -- why isn't he doing solo work? He can get himself on the list to be appointed in criminal cases, handle conflicts for the federal public defender, take his own criminal, divorce, DUI cases, etc.?

I'm sure OKC is a bit of a different ballgame, but a lot of my classmates who also graduated last May are hanging out shingles and doing just fine.

Hell -- lawyers in this economy have a hell of a leg up on everyone else. Bankruptcy (and other things) are booming right now.

BigLaw isn't doing so hot right now because a lot of their bigger clients are using the economy as an excuse to restructure payment terms. Can't blame 'em, what some of those partners were/are billing for is damn near criminal.

[ADqtPiMel]

Originally Posted by Kevin

ADqPiMel -- why isn't he doing solo work? He can get himself on the list to be appointed in criminal cases, handle conflicts for the federal public defender, take his own criminal, divorce, DUI cases, etc.?

I'm sure OKC is a bit of a different ballgame, but a lot of my classmates who also graduated last May are hanging out shingles and doing just fine.

Hell -- lawyers in this economy have a hell of a leg up on everyone else. Bankruptcy (and other things) are booming right now.

BigLaw isn't doing so hot right now because a lot of their bigger clients are using the economy as an excuse to restructure payment terms. Can't blame 'em, what some of those partners were/are billing for is damn near criminal.

I mean, yeah, that's next -- but keep in mind things cost way more in general here than they do in Oklahoma. It's expensive to waive into the DC bar (he took the VA bar). He wants to get on the list to take on cases at the court, but that costs money too (I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know what everything entails). We're scrimping and saving for him to at least be able to waive into the DC bar, but it takes time. We also don't have a car (or the money or space for one) so he's pretty limited in terms of Virginia.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ADqtPiMel

I mean, yeah, that's next -- but keep in mind things cost way more in general here than they do in Oklahoma. It's expensive to waive into the DC bar (he took the VA bar). He wants to get on the list to take on cases at the court, but that costs money too (I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know what everything entails). We're scrimping and saving for him to at least be able to waive into the DC bar, but it takes time. We also don't have a car (or the money or space for one) so he's pretty limited in terms of Virginia.

I know lawyers who office out of their apartments. And generally to join a federal Bar Association or for State dues, it's only around $200 or so, which just about anyone can scrounge up or put on a credit card.

As far as getting on that list, if it's through the Federal Public Defender's office, I doubt that costs anything. If it's a fairly uniform system (and I'm guessing that's the case), then you just get in contact with the public defender, sit second-chair on something that goes to trial and you're ready to go. Doesn't pay great, but it pays.

Something I know a few lawyers do is just hang out in the courtroom at the criminal arraignment dockets and get appointed to represent (for a fee, of course) whatever unrepresented criminal defendants happen to be there that day. In fact, there are a few folks around here who I'm pretty sure do only that and don't actually even have offices.

And once you're a member of the federal Bar, get some good bankruptcy software and that can be a lucrative and easy field to make money in. As a lawyer, you're never unemployed because if you do a good job networking (note: networking means not networking with other lawyers, church, rotary, etc., are much more reliable ways to pick up clients).

Also, if you can get a simple website online, once you get it indexed well with the search engines, you'll be able to bring in quite a few cases that way. In this profession, getting a job with some big firm is highly overrated. Starting solo, you'll make a lot less money in the short run, but in the long run, in terms of stress and even money, you're more than likely going to come out ahead.

[Lil' Hannah]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Something I know a few lawyers do is just hang out in the courtroom at the criminal arraignment dockets and get appointed to represent (for a fee, of course) whatever unrepresented criminal defendants happen to be there that day. In fact, there are a few folks around here who I'm pretty sure do only that and don't actually even have offices.

But...he's working retail. He has to earn a paycheck, he doesn't have all day to hang out in a courtroom.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Lil' Hannah

But...he's working retail. He has to earn a paycheck, he doesn't have all day to hang out in a courtroom.

I really doubt you could do better working retail unless it's a really, really good retail job.

Things might be different in D.C., but I'm quite sure they have petty criminals who need to be pled out just like everyplace else.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I know lawyers who office out of their apartments. And generally to join a federal Bar Association or for State dues, it's only around $200 or so, which just about anyone can scrounge up or put on a credit card.

As far as getting on that list, if it's through the Federal Public Defender's office, I doubt that costs anything. If it's a fairly uniform system (and I'm guessing that's the case), then you just get in contact with the public defender, sit second-chair on something that goes to trial and you're ready to go. Doesn't pay great, but it pays.

Something I know a few lawyers do is just hang out in the courtroom at the criminal arraignment dockets and get appointed to represent (for a fee, of course) whatever unrepresented criminal defendants happen to be there that day. In fact, there are a few folks around here who I'm pretty sure do only that and don't actually even have offices.

And once you're a member of the federal Bar, get some good bankruptcy software and that can be a lucrative and easy field to make money in. As a lawyer, you're never unemployed because if you do a good job networking (note: networking means not networking with other lawyers, church, rotary, etc., are much more reliable ways to pick up clients).

Also, if you can get a simple website online, once you get it indexed well with the search engines, you'll be able to bring in quite a few cases that way. In this profession, getting a job with some big firm is highly overrated. Starting solo, you'll make a lot less money in the short run, but in the long run, in terms of stress and even money, you're more than likely going to come out ahead.

great post.

I especially agree with the part in bold. That has been my mantra for the last year or so while my classmates are ignoring decent opportunities in their desperate attempts to get big firm jobs. While I disagree with some of your assessments, I do know that in looking at my classmates, many of them are not working to make good choices. They have their eyes set on a big firm job and won't even CONSIDER going solo after graduation. They wont even consider a Legal Aid job as a starting point just to pay bills.

[ADqtPiMel]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I know lawyers who office out of their apartments. And generally to join a federal Bar Association or for State dues, it's only around $200 or so, which just about anyone can scrounge up or put on a credit card.

As far as getting on that list, if it's through the Federal Public Defender's office, I doubt that costs anything. If it's a fairly uniform system (and I'm guessing that's the case), then you just get in contact with the public defender, sit second-chair on something that goes to trial and you're ready to go. Doesn't pay great, but it pays.

Something I know a few lawyers do is just hang out in the courtroom at the criminal arraignment dockets and get appointed to represent (for a fee, of course) whatever unrepresented criminal defendants happen to be there that day. In fact, there are a few folks around here who I'm pretty sure do only that and don't actually even have offices.

And once you're a member of the federal Bar, get some good bankruptcy software and that can be a lucrative and easy field to make money in. As a lawyer, you're never unemployed because if you do a good job networking (note: networking means not networking with other lawyers, church, rotary, etc., are much more reliable ways to pick up clients).

Also, if you can get a simple website online, once you get it indexed well with the search engines, you'll be able to bring in quite a few cases that way. In this profession, getting a job with some big firm is highly overrated. Starting solo, you'll make a lot less money in the short run, but in the long run, in terms of stress and even money, you're more than likely going to come out ahead.

Thank you for the advice. We're not comfortable enough with giving up the retail paycheck (and it is a decent retail job, not one he's likely to find again) to take the chance on solo practice. He's at the court twice a week, sometimes more, and sees more lawyers waiting around to represent the unrepresented than there are cases. It's a risky move at this point for us, and we don't have much of a safety net if it fails.

And big firm jobs aren't even on his radar -- the only person we know out here who managed to go the traditional big firm route is a high school friend who graduated top 10% from Stanford, and even she had her offer deferred. He's looking at the government, smaller boutique firms, and clerkships with judges.

I don't have any interest in belaboring this point -- just saying that people directed toward DC as the Land of Jobs are going to be disappointed.

[summer_gphib]

Brevard County, Florida (aka the Space Coast) now has an unemployment rate of 12.7 percent, with another hit coming with the end of the space shuttle program that will affect another 23000 jobs. I highly doubt that those people want to be unemployed. :-P

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ADqtPiMel

Thank you for the advice. We're not comfortable enough with giving up the retail paycheck (and it is a decent retail job, not one he's likely to find again) to take the chance on solo practice. He's at the court twice a week, sometimes more, and sees more lawyers waiting around to represent the unrepresented than there are cases. It's a risky move at this point for us, and we don't have much of a safety net if it fails.

And big firm jobs aren't even on his radar -- the only person we know out here who managed to go the traditional big firm route is a high school friend who graduated top 10% from Stanford, and even she had her offer deferred. He's looking at the government, smaller boutique firms, and clerkships with judges.

I don't have any interest in belaboring this point -- just saying that people directed toward DC as the Land of Jobs are going to be disappointed.

If that's what he's doing, he can probably start doing bankruptcy. Good software only costs a few hundred bucks (and isn't 100% necessary, but saves work). Do some chapter 7s and 13s. Fortunately for y'all (and unfortunately for others), there's as much bankruptcy right now as there was back in '05 when the new bankruptcy laws limiting chapter 7s were taking effect. Nice thing about bankruptcy is that you'll always have a lot of notice ahead of time as to when hearings are and there are generally no emergencies.

He might associate with similarly situated classmates so they can cover eachothers' hearings when work schedules conflict.

[DaemonSeid]

^^^ Dude...after reading the last 2 pages or so I would have thought that you would have walked away but you are really intent on going down with this ship.

As a lawyer, you should know that more than 3 or 4 different people from different walks of life in the same situation aren't going to tell you the SAME lie.


Just let it go and stop making yourself a bigger ass than you are altho...right about now, I'm not sure how that's possible.

Oh yeah and that move to DC bullshit?

We're at 12.1% thanks.

[Kevin]

4th Quarter, 2009, D.C. had 145 job openings per 1000 people. Highest number of openings in the country per capita.

[DaemonSeid]

That 12.1% was from just a few days ago.

Plus you need to tell that to the 4000 that was out looking for jobs at a VA job fair on Sunday that got turned away.

Spare me...walk away with what shred of dignity you got left.

Oh...gee...maybe I better cite myself...

http://www.bls.gov/web/laumstrk.htm

[Kevin]

In February of 2010, that same source shows D.C. as having 1:1 as far as unemployed people per job opening.

http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends/unemployment