Dating and finances

[DaemonSeid]

So are men setting bad examples or bad expectations if they 'pay for everything'?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

So are men setting bad examples or bad expectations if they 'pay for everything'?

Yes.

And women are setting bad examples and expectations when they expect/allow/request that men 'pay for everything.'

It's one of many gendered behaviors that perpetuate the gender structure even when done in moderation.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yes.

And women are setting bad examples and expectations when they expect/allow/request that men 'pay for everything.'

It's one of many gendered behaviors that perpetuate the gender structure even when done in moderation.

Yup...that's why I had to learn to change my habits while I was dating because the last thing I wanted to do was wake up the next day feeling like I wasted money on someone that didn't appreciate the effort....

No...not that

I learned that I had to find other constructive ways to have a quality date without setting the example like I had "deep pockets' or that I was going to be the one to pay for everything every time we went out.

It's nothing wrong with doing all in combinations while dating...we all work, we all have bills.

The whole purpose in going out on a date is to get to know someone.

[PrettyBoy]

Everyone has their own opinions on who pays or what works for them and their date and/or s/o. We all come from different backgrounds, have different views etc etc on the dating/relationship thing. I'm only speaking for myself. I was raised to pay. Period. I guess I'm just old fashioned. Paying, opening doors/car door, when eating out, pulling out the chair, helping her with her coat, etc.. kinda thing is all I've ever seen my dad do for my mom, so that's what I have been raised to do for her. But at the same time, I'm not going to break myself by taking her to fancy, expensive places to eat, at least not while we're in the dating stage. In an actual long-term monogamous relationship, then we help each other out by treating each other.

So, whatever works for you and your s/o when the economy is bad or good, then continue to do it.

[Little32]

To me, it is one of the many acts--to be clear, not the only; because he could pay for dinner and still be a complete ass--that signal that he has gentlemanly qualities, which I value. I don't think that is a bad expectation or bad example.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Little32

To me, it is one of the many acts--to be clear, not the only; because he could pay for dinner and still be a complete ass--that signal that he has gentlemanly qualities, which I value. I don't think that is a bad expectation or bad example.

Cool, ok Little32, how do you define 'dating'? Not the one time act like going to a movie but the entire concept? Also what has changed for you since you started through now?

[Little32]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Cool, ok Little32, how do you define 'dating'? Not the one time act like going to a movie but the entire concept? Also what has changed for you since you started through now?

Uh...hunh...why so personal...lol.

Dating is the getting to know him/and, perhaps, deciding if you want it to be more serious process; (though it could just be for fun too). Dating =/= relationship to me; dating is what you do to determine whether there is relationship potential (or, again, just for fun) and can go on for as long or as short as both folks need it too. For me, I tend to date for a long time before I decide that I want the relationship; and I may or may not be seeing other people at any stage in that process.

What has changed for me? I am enjoying much more the "dating for fun" stuff these days.

[starang21]

A MAN SHOULD PAY FOR EVERYTHING ON THE FIRST DATE. AND PROBABLY SECOND. THIRD IS UP FOR GRABS. IF THE RECESSION IS HITTING YOU THAT BAD, DON'T DATE.

[agzg]

Live-in and I tend to split things and/or switch on and off. It helps both of us to stay on budget while still going out on "dates."

I honestly don't remember if he paid/I paid during our first few dates - but we did some group hangout time that kindof took the pressure off of dating period.

[starang21]

who knew etiquette and manners were bad examples?

[BabyPiNK_FL]

This thread makes dating sound confusing! I was always raised that a man should pay. However, out of courtesy once we're officially dating then I always offer to chip in once in a while unless it is very clear that he is paying. The fews guys I have dated always wanted to pay if they could so I am used to it. It may be old-fashioned, but I like what I like. I like a true gentleman. But then again, I also don't need fine dining. I'd just as gladly split a salad and and ice cream at Chick-Fil-A or something.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Were those guys around HERE??? (Here is Pittsburgh for those who don't know) If anything, I've found most of the guys around here that I dated even in the most casual of manners insist on paying for the first date and get borderline offended if I offer to pay for anything. I'm convinced that part of the reason this one guy I went out with didn't ask me out again is because I paid for the movie tickets - issue with parking and ticket sellout - I didn't do it to emasculate him, which it seems he felt I did.

Indeed, they were, but must not have been raised right. Of course, it could have been because I was so young and they thought I'd be naive enough to fall for it. Older men know better than to imply it.

Originally Posted by AGDee

But, if a man opens my door, I also always reach across and open his for him while he's walking back to his side. That's just thoughtfulness and consideration.

Of course! But with the lavalier opener, it's already open, so I'm sure to give a big Thank You! and pat the seat.

Originally Posted by starang21

who knew etiquette and manners were bad examples?

Very sad, very true. Heartbreaking, really.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

This came up because the program I was on, the hosts wanted to 'redefine' dating and does it mean more than just who can spend what on the first dates.

Daemon, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of program is it?

Originally Posted by AGDee

But, if a man opens my door, I also always reach across and open his for him while he's walking back to his side. That's just thoughtfulness and consideration.

Yep. I do that too.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

But then again, I also don't need fine dining. I'd just as gladly split a salad and and ice cream at Chick-Fil-A or something.

I guess several other folks have made this point too. You don't always have to do something extravagant on a date. There are plenty of fun things to do while dating that won't break (or even tap) the bank.

I agree with Pretty Boy too. I think that folks will find a way to do what they prefer when it comes to dating regardless of the economic situation. If a man prefers to always pay and he is dating a woman that wants to let him, then he will probably continue to pay even if it means going to Ruth Chris's twice a month instead of once a week (and I am certain that there will always men like this who will always be able to find women who love that). As long as it continues to work for them, they will make it work.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by starang21

who knew etiquette and manners were bad examples?

This isn't about etiquette and manners. This is about perpetuating gendered social norms.

If the topic was about people negotiating etiquette and manners based on personality type and choice, rather than gendered obligation, this wouldn't be an issue or even a topic of discussion. Instead the topic is "should men pay (open doors, etc.)."

Ever wonder what happens when women defy gender norms and want to pay for the first few dates, open doors for men (not just to reciprocate), etc? It often confuses things, often angers most men (you'll be surprised what men conclude about the women), and challenges traditional notions of masculinity and femininity. We don't have to think about this stuff and challenge this stuff all the time, but there's nothing wrong with using your brain instead of constantly relying on "how things have always been."