Hazing History

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Hmm. How would one go about initiating a president anyway? I don't see the Secret Service letting their principle be looked in a room full of strangers.

First, I'm sure the secret service wants a list of who will be in that room, secondly, I'm guessing everyone gets patted down and thirdly, I'm guessing for most fraternities that if the requirement on making a president a member is that 2 trained secret service professionals have to be in the room as well, that they would accept the requirement. Who knows, you might actually be able to find who secret service agents who are already brothers, or consider them worthy to be honorary brothers as well!

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Stephen Grover Cleveland 1885–1889 and 1893–1897 Sigma Chi

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I knew there was a president who was an honorary Sigma Chi, but I couldn't remember who.

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Hmm. How would one go about initiating a president anyway? I don't see the Secret Service letting their principle be looked in a room full of strangers.

Wouldn't happen in a post JFK world. Might not happen politically either. A former president (like Clinton), sure. A sitting president -- nope.

[oldu]

Part of the confusion here is terminology. "Honorary membership" can be confusing, witness the embarrasment between Mrs. Obama and one of the NPHC groups. Hayes, Cleveland, McKinley & Truman were all actually initiated as members after college in, we presume, the traditional ceremony. By contrast, there is no record anywhere that either Eisenhower or Kennedy were ever initiated. It is likely they were made "honorary" members either by citation by the national or some local chapter just deciding to do so. The first president to be legitimately initiated as an undergraduate was Garfield and the last was Bush II. I don't mean to split hairs but many Greek organizations allow special initiations of people beyond college age and they probably should not be called "honorary." My conception of that term is someone who is not really a member but deserve the title because of the respect the organization has for them.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by oldu

I don't mean to split hairs but many Greek organizations allow special initiations of people beyond college age and they probably should not be called "honorary." My conception of that term is someone who is not really a member but deserve the title because of the respect the organization has for them.

Well, we have to go with the terminology that the organizations use. I can see how that might be your conception of honorary, but many organizations seem to feel differently. Whether those initiated after college should be called "honorary" or not, the fact is they often are. My fraternity's constitution, for example, provides for four classes of membership: probationary (pledge), collegiate, alumnus and honorary.

A chapter can (with appropriate approval) initiate a chapter honorary and our National Executive Committee can at convention initiate a national honorary (Chapter designation: Alpha Alpha). The only differences between an honorary member and a collegiate or alumnus member is that the honorary member did not go through a probationary membership period and was not initiated while connected to an educational institution hosting a chapter. (Grad students and faculty/staff can be initiated as "collegiate" members and then transfer to alumnus status.) All honorary members must be initiated, though.

I can see why one might want a different term or at least wish that all GLOs used the same or similar terminology, but that horse has left the barn.

I think, for purposes such as this, the issue is whether the fraternity in question claims the president in question as a member. If they do, I'm not sure it's my place to dispute that claim simply because, under similar circumstances (such as not undergoing initiation), my fraternity would not claim him as a member.

[emb021]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Well, we have to go with the terminology that the organizations use. I can see how that might be your conception of honorary, but many organizations seem to feel differently. Whether those initiated after college should be called "honorary" or not, the fact is they often are. My fraternity's constitution, for example, provides for four classes of membership: probationary (pledge), collegiate, alumnus and honorary.

My org has similiar groups, tho for us we call them pledge, active, alumni, and honorary. There is a further group: advisor. Some advisors are former actives, some aren't. Those that aren't, go thru the initiation ceremony, but obviously not the pledge program. Those advisors who stop being advisors become alumni.

As we allow grad students to pledge & be active, its possible to go from alum to being active by being a student and joining the chapter at that school as an active. (this is probably rare, but can happen).

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by oldu

"Honorary membership" can be confusing, witness the embarrasment between Mrs. Obama and one of the NPHC groups.

Embarrassment? Is that what it was?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Embarrassment? Is that what it was?

Nope. The media tries to turn nothing into something.

[emb021]

Originally Posted by naraht

First, I'm sure the secret service wants a list of who will be in that room, secondly, I'm guessing everyone gets patted down and thirdly, I'm guessing for most fraternities that if the requirement on making a president a member is that 2 trained secret service professionals have to be in the room as well, that they would accept the requirement. Who knows, you might actually be able to find who secret service agents who are already brothers, or consider them worthy to be honorary brothers as well!

Hmmmm, am reminded of the story of Harry S Truman and a masonic meeting he attended while president.

The story goes that Truman (a past WM, ie lodge president) was invited to the initation of a new masonic Brother while president. As non-masons are NOT allowed into the chambers, his Secret Service detail wasn't going along with that. Truman said something to the affect that there are few places he would be safer then in a masonic chamber amoung his fellow masons, and entered, without the security guys.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by emb021

The story goes that Truman (a past WM, ie lodge president) was invited to the initation of a new masonic Brother while president. . . . .

Actually, he was past Grand Master of Missouri.

And fwiw, the story, as I have heard it, did still involve a search of the lodge room and of all present by the secret service. Great story, though.