State of the Union Address

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by shimano

[/LIST]Anyone making less that 35k is not pulling their weight and they should be deported.

Not true at all, a single person making 28-35k can live quite comfortably depending on the region they live in.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by shimano

I stand corrected. Anyone making less than 28k should be deported.

Deported where? You can't deport a USC to a different country unless they are a dual citizen of that country AND that country is willing to accept them.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Deported where? You can't deport a USC to a different country unless they are a dual citizen of that country AND that country is willing to accept them.

You have to realize that in his twisted mind, the only people making less then 28K are illegal immigrants.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by shimano

No. The hoodrats with 8 illegitimate kids and no jobs make less than 28k. I wish we could deport them for the same reason. They add nothing to society.

If you disagree with me then you are probably part of the problem.

So you are saying unless you think they are worthy they shouldn't be entitled to all the rights of any other citizen?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by shimano

I stand corrected. Anyone making less than 28k should be deported.

They'd keep coming back after being deported . . . just like you do after being banned.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by shimano

The illegals are like bums in the park. They will keep coming back if you keep feeding them.

So if we stopped feeding you, you'd stop coming back after being banned? Promise?

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by shimano

I stand corrected. Anyone making less than 28k should be deported.

Now you are just being confrontational for the fun of it. You are starting to appear troll like. There are many members of society who contribute mightily to our country and make less than 28k. I venture to guess that many members of our military make less than that. Teachers at private schools, pastors at small churches and people just starting out after college. Your servers at the favorite restaurant probably make less. How about part time workers? Heck I even quit my job and started my own business and the start up did not allow me to make that much. Should I be deported? I believe that illegal aliens should be deported when found and our borders tightened but you cannot make statements such as you do and paint with that broad of a brush. You are starting to sound silly or are you just trolling for a reaction?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

Now you are just being confrontational for the fun of it. You are starting to appear troll like.

Hello, let me introduce you to the often banned "madmax."

If he bothers you, I recommend just putting him on ignore.

[Ghostwriter]

^^^ No Doc I am just embarrassed that we have people around that write such inflamatory diatribes just for kicks. It shuts down reasonable discourse, but of course, that may be what the poster wants. I shall ignore him/her/it. Thanks for the heads up.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

As for "blaming" the old administration - every administration does that to some extent. There's also a big difference between these two ideas:

1) The current administration doesn't deserve any blame because of the shortcomings of the Bush administration.

2) The Bush administration should be blamed for certain things, and the Obama administration should be blamed for certain things. Some of those things are mutually exclusive to each administration.

My sense is that the Obama administration rhetoric is closer to #2, while some administration supporters in the public and press are saying something closer to #1.


One thing in particular on the bolded portion: The true Conservatives out there weren't happy about the spending when Bush was President. There is a significant portion of the Republican party that wasn't happy with Bush as a President and thought he wasn't a true conservative because of how much money he spent on the war and other measures.

Even if "true" conservatives were not happy, they certainly didn't make it all that clear. I think in situations like that people need to let go of strict party support and just say, "hey. There's something about this that is making much sense. we need to step back and rethink this."

And to be honest, my support for Obama aside, I think right now that the main issues we are facing ARE the result of the Bush administration. I don't think there has been enough time to say now that we are facing things that are a result of the shortcomings of the Obama administration. This was one of my concerns about Obama winning though. I felt as though republicans (still don't get why we need to call each other liberals and conservatives) were going to just try and throw all blame on Obama.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Even if "true" conservatives were not happy, they certainly didn't make it all that clear. I think in situations like that people need to let go of strict party support and just say, "hey. There's something about this that is making much sense. we need to step back and rethink this."

I think they did make it clear. The problem is that the Limbaughs and the Becks (and on the liberal side, the Olbermanns) are the loudest voices, and they drown out a lot of the other voices.

I think people did let go of strict party support, and I think people have proven they can let go of strict party support. It's the reason why Bush had such a low approval rating, why Obama won so convincingly, and the reason why so many Republicans ditched the McCain ticket after he chose Palin as a running mate.

ETA: One thing I'm trying to stress is that AGDee's comment isn't particular to the ardent Bush supporters. There are going to be certain Obama supporters who ignore his mistakes. Again, that's just an issue with the political world today, in that some people refuse to see the problems with their favorite candidate/politician.

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

And to be honest, my support for Obama aside, I think right now that the main issues we are facing ARE the result of the Bush administration. I don't think there has been enough time to say now that we are facing things that are a result of the shortcomings of the Obama administration. This was one of my concerns about Obama winning though. I felt as though republicans (still don't get why we need to call each other liberals and conservatives) were going to just try and throw all blame on Obama.

How much is enough time, though? Two years? After his first term?

The thing is, a new President is always going to blame the old administration for certain issues. Obama will blame Bush, who blamed Clinton, who blamed Bush, who blamed Reagan, who blamed Carter, who blamed Ford and Nixon, etc. That's just what happens when a new party comes into power (whether right or wrong).

I'm not saying that the new administration should be blamed for every problem. But, there can be blame for certain collateral issues. An example: it may not be accurate to say that a new President created a problem on his own. However, it may be accurate to say that, through some of his policy decisions, a new administration made the problem worse or better.

I used conservatives and liberals because, in my mind, it's more of an accurate label. I don't think that calling someone a "Democrat" or a "Republican" can fairly encompass how they feel on issues. As an example, I'm a registered Republican primarily because of my economic beliefs: I'm also pro-choice, anti-death penalty, and I have no problem with gay marriage.

I understand that the terms "conservative" and "liberal" have their own limitations as well, so I'm not suggesting that everyone has to use the terms. It's just my own way of saying things.