Minimum campus enrollment?

[DannyM]

The college he's looking at is about 1,700 students, with about 50% Greek.

> On the other hand, a school could have an enrollment of 9,000 with 75% of students involved in Greek Life.

I appreciate and agree with your main point -- every situation is different and has to be judged on its own merits -- but I've gotta say, there are limits. I hope I'm not insulting your alma mater, but that would be an automatic "F" in my book. I've never been involved in college administration but have spent some time on the other side of the lectern as an instructor, have observed some things from that perspective, and have discussed some of these issues with other teachers. That seventy-five percent number tells me that (a) the school is making no effort to facilitate other avenues for student social life; (b) there's far too much unhealthy peer pressure going on among the students (and perhaps being tacitly endorsed by the faculty and administration); and/or (c) the school's student body is unacceptably homogeneous.

As for fifty percent, that may not be enough in my mind for an "F," but it does raise some red flags. The 1700 number doesn't make me feel any better. I can't help but wonder if the non-Greeks have enough of a critical mass to form any sort of alternative to the Greek system, and if so, would the school even have the latent ability to support such alternatives. At least with a size of 9000, the 2000+ non-Greeks in the hypothetical could take advantage of the infrastructure and resources of a small university. With <2000 total enrollment, the "Monty Python Society" may have no other option than to hold its meetings in someone's dorm room.

Well, those are generalities; you're right, what I really need are specifics about this situation.

> Try looking at some of the school ranking sites and see what people say about the Greek system. If there are many strong opinions about it, pro and con, it's probably a pretty prevalent presence

Great idea; I'm an old fart and sometimes don't think of going to the Internet first for information. I'll take a lot at some of those things, as well as try to track down some recent alums and whatever else I can find.

> Don't forget, too, that one of the most important factors when picking a college is the quality of the academics and related educational opportunities.

Well, it's a good school, but so are a lot of others.

Thanks for your comments!

DM

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DannyM

The college he's looking at is about 1,700 students, with about 50% Greek.

> On the other hand, a school could have an enrollment of 9,000 with 75% of students involved in Greek Life.

I appreciate and agree with your main point -- every situation is different and has to be judged on its own merits -- but I've gotta say, there are limits. I hope I'm not insulting your alma mater, but that would be an automatic "F" in my book. I've never been involved in college administration but have spent some time on the other side of the lectern as an instructor, have observed some things from that perspective, and have discussed some of these issues with other teachers. That seventy-five percent number tells me that (a) the school is making no effort to facilitate other avenues for student social life; (b) there's far too much unhealthy peer pressure going on among the students (and perhaps being tacitly endorsed by the faculty and administration); and/or (c) the school's student body is unacceptably homogeneous.

For a former fraternity member, you're assuming a hell of a lot of negative things about schools with high percentages of Greek life.

Why would a high Greek percentage automatically mean a homogenous student body? Greeks at my alma mater were rich, poor, black, white, from the city, from the country, gorgeous, not so gorgeous. Your assuming that every Greek on a campus is from the same type of group is ludicrous. At a school with 75% Greek involvement, it's probably even MORE ludicrous.

It's possible that the school provides oodles of other opportunities. It's also possible that, compared to Greek life, they just don't measure up. That's called a free market. If anything, schools these days seem to be busting their balls trying to invent "theme houses" and weak substitutes for Greek life. My perception is that the students see these for what they are - the college trying to exert more control over young adults' social life than they should - and reject them in favor of something better when it's offered.

As for peer pressure, like I stated, it may just be that at a certain point in your college career, you go Greek. If you saw statistics that said 75% of students moved off campus their sophomore year, would you automatically assume "peer pressure" was making them do so? Or would you think that maybe, just maybe, the students didn't like either the rules and restrictions or the physical dorms themselves and were smart enough to look elsewhere? Again, that's a free market.

Let your child make his own decision and quit worrying about problems that may not even exist. This post really rubbed me the wrong way.

[MaggieXi]

Heli-Dad.
fwap fwap fwap

[DannyM]

> This post really rubbed me the wrong way.

That's unfortunate, but I stand by every word I said.

> For a former fraternity member, you're assuming a hell of a lot of negative things about schools with high percentages of Greek life.

No, I'm being realistic. Former fraternity member does not mean "blindly enthusiastic." I've seen the Greek system up close from four different perspectives; as an undergrad, a grad student, then as an instructor at two other schools. I was Greek as an undergrad, enjoyed it, and on the whole I consider it a positive experience. But certainly not a perfect one, and I'm under no illusions. Greek societies do have a down side -- period. My personal observations and my conversations with other education professionals have convinced me that when the percentage of students who are Greek reaches that sort of level, certain negative aspects of Greek life are not only unchecked but are magnified, to the detriment of Greeks and non-Greeks.

> If you saw statistics that said 75% of students moved off campus their sophomore year, would you automatically assume "peer pressure" was making them do so?

No, but I would assume that for whatever reason, campus housing was so inadequate compared to off-campus housing that it simply wasn't a viable alternative for most students. Similarly, if I saw that 75% of students were Greek, I would assume that for whatever reason, non-Greek social life was so inadequate on that campus that for most students, it simply wasn't a viable alternative. Certain numbers naturally lead to their own inferences.

> Why would a high Greek percentage automatically mean a homogenous student body? Greeks at my alma mater were rich, poor, black, white, from the city, from the country, gorgeous, not so gorgeous. Your assuming that every Greek on a campus is from the same type of group is ludicrous.

It wouldn't automatically mean that. But I guess you didn't notice the "and/or" before "(c)." Next time, please read more carefully before you reach for the flamethrower.

> Let your child make his own decision and quit worrying about problems that may not even exist.

When did I ever say he wouldn't make his own decision? Talk about making assumptions!

DM

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by DannyM

No, but I would assume that for whatever reason, campus housing was so inadequate compared to off-campus housing that it simply wasn't a viable alternative for most students. Similarly, if I saw that 75% of students were Greek, I would assume that for whatever reason, non-Greek social life was so inadequate on that campus that for most students, it simply wasn't a viable alternative. Certain numbers naturally lead to their own inferences.

DM

I don't look at a large Greek percentage and say,"Wow, there is a lot of pressure to join a GLO." I look at a large number and say, "Wow, the Greeks must be doing something right that so many people see it as a good thing and want to join."

If there isn't a viable non-Greek social life, then that's the non-Greek students' fault. They can start clubs in their majors or interests and get the word out that they are available.