Health Reform passed in Senate

[Kevin]

The current legislation as I understand it does away with mandates, but doesn't do much to require that well people buy insurance. This is smart on the part of the Dems as they will be able to use the subsequent rise in insurance prices to ride public opinion to having a public option.

I'm generally in favor of some kind of reform. The trouble with just about everything is that in order to appease special interests, they're ignoring some of the larger issues. It's almost a given that this'll be a bonanza for some special interests.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The current legislation as I understand it does away with mandates, but I'm generally in favor of some kind of reform. The trouble with just about everything is that in order to appease special interests, they're ignoring some of the larger issues. It's almost a given that this'll be a bonanza for some special interests.

Wait, you mean like TARP?

Government is not the solution to the problem, it's the problem.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Wait, you mean like TARP?

TARP was also completely ridiculous. Targeted bailouts of Wall Street Banks were needed. Everything else was just an orgy of political favor and corruption.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Government is not the solution to the problem, it's the problem.

Yeah, none of the problems with have in health care now can be laid at the feet of insurance companies.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Government is not the solution to the problem, it's the problem.

Yeah, none of the problems with have in health care now can be laid at the feet of insurance companies.

Simplistic statements like "the government is the problem" (or "the insurance companies are the problem") are just that: simplistic.

[crescent&pearls]

There's nothing simplistic about this issue.

I'd like to see voters start talking about what they really want: health insurance reform. No one seems to be saying they have a problem with the health care they receive from their health care provider. I don't see any health care providers jumping up and down saying "I want to be paid less for the work I do so everyone can have health care!" but I think that's exactly what we're gonna get.

Say goodbye to your favorite health care provider. She's going to start a new career as a house flipper.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by crescent&pearls

There's nothing simplistic about this issue.

I'd like to see voters start talking about what they really want: health insurance reform. No one seems to be saying they have a problem with the health care they receive from their health care provider. I don't see any health care providers jumping up and down saying "I want to be paid less for the work I do so everyone can have health care!" but I think that's exactly what we're gonna get.

Say goodbye to your favorite health care provider. She's going to start a new career as a house flipper.

Providers are complicit, though, in the rising cost of health care, right?

Part of health insurance reform is breaking the symbiotic (and grossly pernicious, for the consumer) bond between providers and insurers, which results in both sides benefiting from higher costs, which results in increased haggling between both sides for payment, which in results in higher costs, and so on.

For being groups that supposedly don't get along on a day-to-day basis, providers and insurers seem to be on the same side of the lobbying on this issue.

[crescent&pearls]

Yes, they are part of the problem that has to be addressed. Yet have you heard anyone addressing the issue of referral for profit? If your provider tells you you need an MRI, but fails to tell you he/she or his/her medical group owns the MRI imaging center does it make you question whether or not you really need that MRI?

When I was involved in an auto accident last year, my auto insurance had to disclose to me that I could take my car to any facility I chose to have the repairs done. Health insurance doesn't work that way. If we are going to pass reform, why not include a provision that your health insurance company must pay "any willing, licensed provider" in your state...not just the providers that are within their provider panels.

Of course health care providers have relationships with insurance companies. If you have Kaiser, your health care provider is employed by an insurance company. If you have Aetna, Cigna, Blue Cross/Shield etc your provider has to agree to those insurance companies "reimbursement" terms in order to get on their "provider panels." If you're an independent provider and don't currently have a "contract" with those major insurers..go try getting approved to accept their plans and see how that works out for you. And keep in mind that providers are not limited to MDs...many ancillary care providers are not represented by big lobbyists in Washington.

Whatever reform we end up with it's not gonna be simple, that's for sure.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by crescent&pearls

No one seems to be saying they have a problem with the health care they receive from their health care provider.

But some are saying that. I've heard quite a few doctors and nurses say it. People want health care providers who will focus more on preventive health, who will spend more than 5 or 10 minutes with them, who think there might be an effective treatment other than drugs, who will listen to them instead of just ordering more tests.

I'm not saying there are no health care providers like this, nor am I blaming it all on the health care providers. It's a systemic problem that involves the health care providers themselves, the insurance companies, the pharmaceutical companies, medical schools, tort litigation . . . .

Hence, the there's-nothing-simplistic-about-this-issue aspect of all this.