Obama has won a Nobel

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

No, it absolutely should NOT be enough for everybody - under similar logic, we would never question decisions by Congress, judges, juries, police officers, and others who may do what they think is "best" to disastrous ends.

It's fine if it's enough for you, but I see no reason why it is wrong or improper to feel differently.

The difference is that a foreign country is "in charge of" this award. I certainly do question things...when the US is "in charge of" it. I'm not arrogant enough to tell folks in a foreign country what they should or should not do. That attitude is why other countries have so much hatred towards the US anyway. Instead I leave my questioning for things that occur HERE.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

The difference is that a foreign country is "in charge of" this award. I certainly do question things...when the US is "in charge of" it. I'm not arrogant enough to tell folks in a foreign country what they should or should not do. That attitude is why other countries have so much hatred towards the US anyway. Instead I leave my questioning for things that occur HERE.

In case you missed it - the U.S. is a part of the world, and what happens in one country, affects another. The award is decided upon by 5 Norwegians, but it is an international award specifically designed to have a worldwide impact. So you are concerned about what other countries would think of us exercising free speech? Is your solution to shut out criticism of Obama (or in this case, really the Nobel committee)? You've said you won't give an answer to the question of why he qualifies - so are you just interested in being critical of those who quite simply don't think that he was the BEST choice - notice in my earlier post I went to the trouble of looking up other nominees, who I felt were better qualified.

The fact that you are so concerned with how criticism of the award might feed into international opinion of the U.S. is ironic given that one reason given for Obama's being given the award is the fact that his election changed the perception of the U.S. by other countries. If we are going for the whole isolation thing, then why should we be concerned with anything we are not "in charge of"? For that matter, using your "logic", why should any other country criticize the U.S. if they are not "in charge of " it? Iraq? Guatanamo Bay? Should the world have no say in these things because they are not in charge of it? The U.N. would have to shut down in every country were only in a position to have an opinion of those things they were "in charge of".

I honestly hope that Obama lives up to the opinion of the committee and is able to bring about a peaceful, non-nuclear world. That would obviously be a great thing. I just don't think he's done it yet or made enough progress towards it to warrant a Nobel Peace Prize.

(Smilies inserted at request of 7 yr. old son who is looking over my shoulder- )

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

People who ask what has he achieved probably don't recognize how difficult it truly is to organize such a large number of extremly diverse supporters [a group of supporters that crosses boundaries of race, religion, region, language, etc.] around a message of hope, positivity, humanity and ultimately love. No one else has ever been able to do that. I know its a small achievement to some, but comparatively speaking it is quite large.

Now, he won the Prize because he can actually do what he has set out to do and is in the process of making it happen. Yes, its political, but I wouldn't say he is not at all deserving. Glad he won it!

"Why put off for tomorrow what you can accomplish today?" Guess the Prize committee took this one to heart! lol!

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

If it doesn't indicate a lack of a valid answer, do tell why you (or anyone) who has a valid answer would play coy and not give it.

It's hardly presumptuous (presumptous of what, exactly?) to say I don't feel he fits the criteria (which I quoted, just in case) and to ask that if you do, please tell what he has done that would qualify him to win. If, for whatever reason, you chose not to disclose why you think he qualifies - what are we to think?

When did shock and surprise enter the conversation? I will say that Obama himself said he was surprised - did you expect him to win? Really? (Rhetorical question, btw.)

Please see above.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

Please see above.

Which part has never happened before? Because each element is notably present, whether by sheer numbers and diversity (others have carried more of the popular vote across a broader spectrum), others have utilized a message of hope/change/empowerment (off the top of my head, Kennedy), etc., in previous presidential bids. Now, Obama's been the most recent, and certainly a big departure from Bush, but it seems like you're markedly overstating your case.

Now, I'm not trying to denigrate Obama's campaign, but it's just that: a campaign, one full of politics and promises, just like every other campaign. Trust me, I vastly prefer the politics of hope over those of fear or xenophobia or whatever, but it's too soon to say this new type of politics actually leads to anything substantive, don't you think?

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Which part has never happened before? Because each element is notably present, whether by sheer numbers and diversity (others have carried more of the popular vote across a broader spectrum), others have utilized a message of hope/change/empowerment (off the top of my head, Kennedy), etc., in previous presidential bids. Now, Obama's been the most recent, and certainly a big departure from Bush, but it seems like you're markedly overstating your case.

Now, I'm not trying to denigrate Obama's campaign, but it's just that: a campaign, one full of politics and promises, just like every other campaign. Trust me, I vastly prefer the politics of hope over those of fear or xenophobia or whatever, but it's too soon to say this new type of politics actually leads to anything substantive, don't you think?

Yes there have been plenty of people who have run on the same message and there have been presidents who've carried more of the vote. Who is the last president who had this much international support before and after being elected president? How many U.S. presidents draw crowds of millions anywhere outside of the country (even before being elected)?
And by support and being able to unite people I don't just mean Americans. Im not talking about just his election bid. As a world leader Obama's efforts and support are not paralleled by many. There are not many people who have rallied and campaigned for peace and unity and hope at the scale Obama has. If you think of the people who have had this kind of world wide support names you might mention would be Mandela, Bishop Tutu, Martin L. King Jr. Now, I would not go as far to say that Obama is their equal exactly, but he has gone a step further than any of them has been able to. To come from relative obscurity and be able to achieve what he has is quite amazing. All the other world leaders of this magnitude came out of some MAJOR civil rights movement/ fight against injustice. Obama came from "average" America. That is a feat.

So, what I am saying about his efforts is not specific to his camaign for president only. His campaign and promises made are just a bunch of words that aren't worth a certificate from Staples. What makes Obama's efforts even remotely worthy of a Nobel is the overwhelming support and inspiration and change he has made around the world. There has been no person who has had this much influence this soon and has used positivity to gain it.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

Yes there have been plenty of people who have run on the same message and there have been presidents who've carried more of the vote. Who is the last president who had this much international support before and after being elected president? How many U.S. presidents draw crowds of millions anywhere outside of the country (even before being elected)?
And by support and being able to unite people I don't just mean Americans. Im not talking about just his election bid. As a world leader Obama's efforts and support are not paralleled by many. There are not many people who have rallied and campaigned for peace and unity and hope at the scale Obama has. If you think of the people who have had this kind of world wide support names you might mention would be Mandela, Bishop Tutu, Martin L. King Jr. Now, I would not go as far to say that Obama is their equal exactly, but he has gone a step further than any of them has been able to. To come from relative obscurity and be able to achieve what he has is quite amazing. All the other world leaders of this magnitude came out of some MAJOR civil rights movement/ fight against injustice. Obama came from "average" America. That is a feat.

So, what I am saying about his efforts is not specific to his camaign for president only. His campaign and promises made are just a bunch of words that aren't worth a certificate from Staples. What makes Obama's efforts even remotely worthy of a Nobel is the overwhelming support and inspiration and change he has made around the world. There has been no person who has had this much influence this soon and has used positivity to gain it.

Well said.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

In case you missed it - the U.S. is a part of the world, and what happens in one country, affects another. The award is decided upon by 5 Norwegians, but it is an international award specifically designed to have a worldwide impact. So you are concerned about what other countries would think of us exercising free speech? Is your solution to shut out criticism of Obama (or in this case, really the Nobel committee)? You've said you won't give an answer to the question of why he qualifies - so are you just interested in being critical of those who quite simply don't think that he was the BEST choice - notice in my earlier post I went to the trouble of looking up other nominees, who I felt were better qualified.

The fact that you are so concerned with how criticism of the award might feed into international opinion of the U.S. is ironic given that one reason given for Obama's being given the award is the fact that his election changed the perception of the U.S. by other countries. If we are going for the whole isolation thing, then why should we be concerned with anything we are not "in charge of"? For that matter, using your "logic", why should any other country criticize the U.S. if they are not "in charge of " it? Iraq? Guatanamo Bay? Should the world have no say in these things because they are not in charge of it? The U.N. would have to shut down in every country were only in a position to have an opinion of those things they were "in charge of".

I honestly hope that Obama lives up to the opinion of the committee and is able to bring about a peaceful, non-nuclear world. That would obviously be a great thing. I just don't think he's done it yet or made enough progress towards it to warrant a Nobel Peace Prize.

(Smilies inserted at request of 7 yr. old son who is looking over my shoulder- )

Obama's election changed the perception of the US because other countries know how racist this country is...even today. THAT is what changed. They were finally able to see the election of a Black president in a country that is known for its horrendous and despicable treatment of Blacks. Still, other countries have long felt that we have a "savior" mentality and think that OUR way is the best way. That perception hasn't changed much, but other leaders appreciate the fact that Obama shows proper respect and doesn't throw his weight around like many of our past presidents.

In reference to the comment about whether we are in "charge" of something, the examples you gave are far different. The Nobel Prize doesn't have the same effect as our involvement in Iraq or the situation with Guantanamo. But I think you know that.

And with respect to your question of why some of us "play coy"..............
Some of us are NOT playing coy. I just don't feel I need to tell you why I am glad that he won the award. It's fine if you want to list everyone you felt was more entitled. So what? That means absolutely nothing. IT WASN'T YOUR CALL TO MAKE. What part of that are you having trouble comprehending? The difference between us is that I am satisfied that these people chose the person THEY felt was best. They chose the person THEY wanted. I respect their right and privilege to do so.

[honeychile]

One of the local (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette) columnists said it well: When Intentions Win Prizes, Hope Springs Eternal

The Chicago Tribune also has an interesting take: It's a Twelve Day Miracle! Praise Obama and Pass the Hopium!

I don't know many people who think that the President isn't capable of winning a Nobel Prize, but in twelve days? That's what most people are questioning. If the Nobel Committee want to cheapen the meaning of the Peace Prize, that's their privilege. Unfortunately, their decision also cheapens every Nobel prize they've awarded in the past.

[moe.ron]

Originally Posted by honeychile

If the Nobel Committee want to cheapen the meaning of the Peace Prize, that's their privilege. Unfortunately, their decision also cheapens every Nobel prize they've awarded in the past.

Only the Nobel Peace Prize. The Nobel Prize on Literature, Physics, Chemistry, Physiology or Medicine is without equal. It's like winning the Gold Medal for Literature and Science.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by honeychile

That's what most people are questioning. If the Nobel Committee want to cheapen the meaning of the Peace Prize, that's their privilege. Unfortunately, their decision also cheapens every Nobel prize they've awarded in the past.

It does not cheapen the award in their eyes, and I doubt it cheapens the award in the eyes of others around the world. That's going entirely too far. If that is the case, then the award should have been "cheapened" a long time ago when far more controversial people received it. Clearly it wasn't, and it won't be "cheapened" this time either.

[MysticCat]

I've avoided this thread for days because I knew where it was going to go. I wasn't disappointed, but here I dive in anyway.

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

The difference is that a foreign country is "in charge of" this award. I certainly do question things...when the US is "in charge of" it. I'm not arrogant enough to tell folks in a foreign country what they should or should not do. That attitude is why other countries have so much hatred towards the US anyway. Instead I leave my questioning for things that occur HERE.

Interesting approach. So, I guess all of us who protested apartheid should have kept our American traps shut, since we shouldn't tell folks in a foreign country what they should or shouldn't do. Let's stop all the complaining about Darfur while we're at it and keep our opinions about the Middle East to ourselves. And we won't even start on why the French think Jerry Lewis is so funny.

Look, I voted for Obama, I support Obama and I'd vote for him again. I actually felt bad for him when I heard he won the Nobel Peace Prize, because I could see exactly the sort of distracting criticism that would ensue. The criticism is not unfounded -- he hasn't had time to do anything. Pure and simple, I think they gave him the prize because he's not GWB, and in parts of the Europe and the world, that's enough reason right there.

It is what it is. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I've avoided this thread for days because I knew where it was going to go. I wasn't disappointed, but here I dive in anyway.

Same.

Did "racism" really get brought up again? Variety is apparently the spice of life.

/sarcasm

[DrPhil]

I nominate this for WORST THREAD EVER.

The nominations are now closed. This thread wins.

Do not question my decision. I'm a private organization with my own criteria. You are not allowed to have opinions about it because you were not involved in the decision making process, nor can you change the decision.

Oh yeah...RACISM.

Thank you.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Thank you.

What do you mean by that? I bet you mean "you people."

God, what a racist

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

What do you mean by that? I bet you mean "you people."

God, what a racist

OMG! If the "you" shoe doesn't fit then don't wear it.