Selectivity And Apo

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by AndrewPiChi

Yup, cause all male chapters are not apo right?

Now, on pledging, pledging a weak applicant is like having a weak link in the chain or like having a coward in the ranks. I'd rather have ten people that bleed their fraternity than 200 people that are only active for a semester or two.

And on being like more a traditional fraternity as opposed than being different and accepting of all? I mean, it works a whole lot better than being a huge blob of unorganized and uncommitted brothers. I'll put my money where my mouth is, I think we won more national awards than anyone in region V, and hands down we were one of the smallest chapters to.

Now when my grandfather pledged Alpha Phi Omega in 1954, they're chapter was incredibly selective. Eagle Scouts and military only, I asked him how many service projects they did and he said 'well we ran a bookstore'. I was like is that it?

It was apparently the same thing my chapter early on as well, Pi Chi from what I hear was just an extension of rotc.

Attending national stuff doesn't really even register to me anymore as part of a 'fraternity resume' that a bunch of people keep throwing around here. I attended this and this, who the hell cares.

You are oversimplifying a great deal of the Alpha Phi Omega experience.

1) Pledging a weak applicant is not at all like having a coward in the ranks. Pledging is not equal to initiating. A good pledging program will have several opportunities for reflection, self-assessment, and group assessment. Someone who is weak at the beginning has the (mandated) opportunity to prove themselves worthy by the end.

2) Quality and quantity are not mutually exclusive.

3) Attendance and support of national conventions does matter -- it not only demonstrates the commitment, but suggests a knowledge of how the fraternity operates.

Nobody here was throwing around their resume -- they are demonstrating an understanding of how the fraternity runs, commitment to the fraternity over a long period of time, and showing that it doesn't matter the date on your shingle as much as the quality of what you're doing for Alpha Phi Omega right now.

As stated earlier, there are many ways to serve, especially upon graduation:

1) Advise a chapter. There are no limits on the number of advisors a chapter can have.

2) Section, Region, or National Volunteer. I have (also) done all three and they are very different at each level.

3) Annual giving -- for those who are fine putting their money where their mouth is.

4) Joining or starting an alumni association and keeping it going -- if you're not selected to advise a chapter and can't seem to get your foot in the door with volunteering as staff, nobody can stop you from joining or starting an alumni association if you have done it by the rules (which are pretty loose, if you ask me)

I have always taken the stance that there is no good excuse for inactivity in APO after graduation.

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by AndrewPiChi

Yup, cause all male chapters are not apo right?

There's a difference between "all-male" and "viking", and you know this.

Now, on pledging, pledging a weak applicant is like having a weak link in the chain or like having a coward in the ranks. I'd rather have ten people that bleed their fraternity than 200 people that are only active for a semester or two.

But how do you know really know they're weak? With this extension effort I'm sponsoring, I've seen several students come in that at first glance and during the first week I didn't think they would be super-strong members, but they've pleasantly surprised me by taking the ball and really going with it.

Thanks to these students being given the opportunity and time to prove themselves, the group has gone from spinning its wheels in place to just having some paperwork to finish up and they'll be a Petitioning Group with a large chunk of their chartering requirements already out of the way. Had they followed this pre-selectivity process and denied some of these students that opportunity, we'd have one less chapter on the way.

Not too bad for a group of students who for the most part have NO formal education in Alpha Phi Omega yet, but want to prove that in due time, they are deserving to be recognized as loyal and true brothers. If only pledges at all chapters were given an appropriate time of say 6 to 10 weeks in order to prove themselves instead of being bounced because of poorly formed pre-conceptions....

And on being like more a traditional fraternity as opposed than being different and accepting of all? I mean, it works a whole lot better than being a huge blob of unorganized and uncommitted brothers. I'll put my money where my mouth is, I think we won more national awards than anyone in region V, and hands down we were one of the smallest chapters to.

You are confusing open membership and accepting all comers as pledges to be the same "we take everybody into active membership", which isn't the case. Chapters who are just taking all comers are just as much in violation as those who pre-select. This isn't a binary situation, where not doing one means you're doing the other, and it is ignorant to think otherwise.

A blob of unorganized and uncommitted brothers? I guarantee Alpha Alpha can mop the floor with just about any chapter out there with their level of organization and how complex their chapter operations are. They can churn out over 6000 hours a semester of pure service with at least one project of some kind available every day of the week, multiple leadership development opportunities and fellowship activities on a weekly basis, a highly organized method of tracking all of this, long-standing traditions and history that pre-date your grandfather's birth, a standing on their campus that when people want consistent and dedicated volunteers they know to contact APO, a very strong pledge program, a set of chapter operations that is so detailed and complex that they had to write a 40+ page chapter supplement to the national pledge manual to make sure all of it gets covered, every time they are eligible for RSO of the year they win it, and a seriousness to their ceremonies that makes me proud to be an alum of theirs.

Not too bad for a chapter that welcomes all students to pledge and prove themselves worthy of our brotherhood. Their current class is somewhere around 120 pledges, which might push them up from their standing as the third largest chapter in APO.

If my choices are a small chapter who if I can't get along with some of them I might as well not be part of APO, or a large chapter where while we may not all get along, we do recognize the value of brotherhood that binds us together and set that aside when it comes time to conduct business, I'll take the big chapter every time.

Circle K with a Ritual? Please. This exclusivity mindset makes you look like a Country Club with a ritual, or Omega Theta Pi from Animal House with a service program.

Now when my grandfather pledged Alpha Phi Omega in 1954, they're chapter was incredibly selective. Eagle Scouts and military only, I asked him how many service projects they did and he said 'well we ran a bookstore'. I was like is that it?

It was apparently the same thing my chapter early on as well, Pi Chi from what I hear was just an extension of rotc.

And that was clearly a violation of membership policy, even then. It was made clear from the beginning that we were not to be restrictive like that.

Attending national stuff doesn't really even register to me anymore as part of a 'fraternity resume' that a bunch of people keep throwing around here. I attended this and this, who the hell cares.

Who cares? It shows that you have a love and understanding of Alpha Phi Omega as a whole fraternity, not just your local chapter. If you wanted to only care about a local brotherhood and not be part of a national, then why would you join APO?

Also, I think it's funny that you claim your chapter has won more national awards than anybody in Region V, but you don't care about attending national stuff?

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I have always taken the stance that there is no good excuse for inactivity in APO after graduation.

An excellent stance. Consider it officially stolen and appropriated for my own use

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

There's a difference between "all-male" and "viking", and you know this.
Circle K with a Ritual? Please. This exclusivity mindset makes you look like a Country Club with a ritual, or Omega Theta Pi from Animal House with a service program.

*LOL* Hey Andrew, I guess the two of us are Doug Neidermeyer and Greg Marmalard. Let's flip a coin and determine who's who. Heads, I'm Neidermeyer and you're Marmalard, tails, vice versa.

Since we're Omega Theta Pi, let's have Arvid be Chip Diller. So whichever one of us is Neidermeyer can "put him in the cut" just like what Neidermeyer did to Chip. *LOL*

[naraht]

Originally Posted by AndrewPiChi

Now when my grandfather pledged Alpha Phi Omega in 1954, they're chapter was incredibly selective. Eagle Scouts and military only, I asked him how many service projects they did and he said 'well we ran a bookstore'. I was like is that it?

*sigh* Going all the way back to the 1930s, there were reminders in the Lightbearer/T&T from the National Officers that it was inappropriate for chapters to limit themselves to Eagle Scouts or in any way to use rank achieved during their Scouting experience as a selection criteria.

[emb021]

Originally Posted by naraht

*sigh* Going all the way back to the 1930s, there were reminders in the Lightbearer/T&T from the National Officers that it was inappropriate for chapters to limit themselves to Eagle Scouts or in any way to use rank achieved during their Scouting experience as a selection criteria.

Yup. And when Bartle was elected president, he had a gathering at his ranch that summer, and this was a topic of discussion. The concension then was not to do it.