Selectivity And Apo

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

According to whom? On what basis? Do you know this for a fact and/or have you even tried to institute it?

As an active alumni volunteer on both the sectional and regional level, advisor to two different chapters and currently am a sponsor to an extension group, I have seen this first hand in several situations. I advised a predominantly black co-ed chapter for 5 years, and guess what? Every semester they tried to emulate NPHC groups with selectivity, all they got were people who were really good at putting up a fake and then disappearing the next time the Alphas or Deltas or whoever were running a line. The semesters they did it the right way, by putting out there that they're not like these groups and everybody who wants to try to be of service gets the opportunity to pledge, placed the standard of what is expected before them to attain active membership, and treated them how an APO pledge class is supposed to be treated... those were the semesters that people stuck around because they spent a semester thinking if APO was the right group for them.

So yes, I have seen it done that way, and I can say with multiple data points to back me up that it does not work with our existing structure and policies on the vast majority of our campuses.

Oh, get the fuss outta here with that empty canned rhetoric! Like I said before, one of the key element of a true FRATERNITY lies in its exclusivity and selectivity, usually through a rigorous thorough vetting process. Will it be foolproof or failsafe? Not at all. But it will definately show prospective members that APO isn't an organization which you can shuck and jive you way into joining.

You have a very serious misunderstanding of what it means to be in a fraternity, my friend, and I'm beginning to think that you would be the person who joined for the wrong reasons.

If you prefer to dismiss that as rhetoric, that's fine because I can't control what you think, no matter how horribly misguided and wrong it is. The pledge program IS the vetting process. If you can't or won't understand that, then APO *really* is the wrong group for you. We select, just on the back end. If someone comes up to pledge review and doesn't have their shit together, they've got questions to answer as to why, and if they can't get it done in time, they're invited to try again. If they've got it all done, then our national policies dictate that you need to have a much better reason that "I just don't like you" to not initiate that pledge. If you can't follow national pledging standards and policies because you find them inconvenient, then you truly have no respect for APO and I'm wondering why you haven't taken the recently-implemented option to resign your membership if you find our policies so detestable. I'm sure Judy and Bob would be able to process that for you in a timely manner.

Do you, then....

I do. I call complete bullshit on someone who talks about how dedicated they are to APO out of the same mouth that is telling me that they have done absolutely nothing with or for APO in almost 10 years. It rings incredibly hollow, indeed.

Oh, so you want my resume? Trust, it isn't Viking/MOTRS only:

Chapter Historian, Alpha Gamma Theta Chapter, 1992-94. Helped organize a weekly service project where we would help a local community development program assemble fresh fruit and vegetable packages to issue to low income families.

Brother of Rho Theta Chapter, 1995-97. Assisted the Pledgemaster and Assistant Pledgemaster in the training and indoctrination of pledges. Initiated the Last Rites March where pledges and brothers would march across campus by candlelight.

BTW, these chapter are most definately NOT Viking chapters.

And when was the last time you contacted or did anything with them? I'm guessing it's been quite a while since AGT is inactive and Rho Theta's website hasn't been updated since 2002.

As far as attending workshops and conferences:

Chapter Presidents Workshop, 1992
Section 57 (later 56/59) Conference, 1993-97, 2000.
Region V Conference, 1995
National Convention (non-voting) delegate, 1996
Submitted legislation for the 2000 National Convention.

That's great and all, but your resume is about 10-15 years out of date. What have you done for APO lately? Are you aware of a huge shift in how students think about volunteerism lately?

And I hadn't even mentioned that I helped get some women to organize a local chapter of Gamma Sigma Sigma in 1999 to help build synergy with Alpha Phi Omega.

No disrespect to the women of GSS, but that has absolutely nothing to do with APO, so that isn't even germane to the discussion. But I digress...

As for joining an alumni association, all they did was have a monthly dinner and socialize, and that was when I was an undergrad. When I finally graduated, the association had faded out.

And that happens. If you care so much about APO, why didn't you restart it? Why didn't you seek to improve what you saw as not meeting your needs? It sounds to me like you weren't willing to invest the time to make it better, and that you were hoping for someone else to do it for you instead of being a leader yourself...

In 2000, I offered my services as a member of Sectional Staff and no one would contact me to follow up with me. Later that year, I presented a proposal for a workshop I would facilitate for the 2000 National Convention and the Convention co-ordinator refused. At that point, I said that I was done; if APO has that much of an issue with me being pro-all male and pro-Viking (all the while respecting brothers of chapters that wish to be co-ed and being a team player in the process), then I pretty much earned the right to b**ch about Alpha Phi Omega.

So you weren't of use to the section at that time, or the section chair failed to contact you (which happens all too often). When I was a section vice-chair, we turned down alumni who it was felt would not make good sectional volunteers for a variety of reasons. I just talked to a recent alum of a chapter in my area who wants to go be an advisor for the same chapter she just graduated from. I advised her against it, because she would not be a good fit for the role, and invited her to try a different chapter in the area or to wait a couple of years and get her life in order first.

I hope the irony of saying we need to tighten up our standards on who we allow into our brotherhood in the same thread that you are complaining that you were not selected for Sectional Staff after asking only once is not lost on you. I guess you just didn't want it bad enough to actually work for it...

Oh boo hoo, so you weren't picked to present at the one national convention you volunteered for. I have attended 5 conventions, of which 4 were as an alumni volunteer. I have only presented twice at a nationals, and both were LAUNCH courses. I have prepared other workshops that were rejected at all three levels. What did you have to present? Was it something you saw of value to the students, but they didn't? Was it for something that they already had a much more qualified presenter lined up already?

None of this gives you the right to bitch and moan the way you do. It barely gives you the right to throw a pity-party. Again, I say: you knew what you were getting into when you joined. You knew that we do things differently because we're different. You had almost 3 months to decide if this was going to be the right group for you. Yet, you joined anyway and took an oath. If you don't want to live up to your oath, fine. I also hope the irony of complaining about people who leave APO right after pledging at the same time you talk about leaving APO yourself is also not lost on you.

(see above)

That would be a moderately impressive resume if it wasn't horribly dated by almost 9 years. I believe I asked, what have you done for APO lately? And, as it turns out, the answer is nothing but bitch. Oh, and Viking stuff, but that doesn't count because it's not really APO.

BULL$#!T!! I have been in this organization for 17 years, I know exactly what I am talking about!

You may have been holding a membership card for 17 years, but you really haven't been involved with APO for all 17 years. You have a very poor understanding of today's college student, and I encourage you to spend a bit more time with a large variety of them to get a better understanding before you go spouting off.

As you can see, it wasn't for lack of trying.

That's hardly trying. There are always ways to get involved and ways to effect change. It's pretty clear though, that your brand of change is a huge move backwards for APO, and it's not what the students want.

FRH also wanted a fraternity that functioned like a fraternity in substance, not merely in form. When the basic requirements began to be eliminated (had to be a former Boy Scout, etc.), APO went into a whole new direction which permanently changed its image and structure.

And this goes back to you have a very bad understanding of what it means to be in a Fraternity. You obviously don't have the dedication it takes to be in a fraternity if you're willing to just quit because you can't get your way.

Wait, you mean to say that the group looked at itself and decided to change it's structure to better ensure our founder's vision? Scandalous, I say! How dare they move from the original structure. And may I ask, since you're so adamant about doing it the Founder's way, what was YOUR Scouting affiliation when you pledged?