A sensitive matter.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Yeah, and we're next, S. My congregation has already stopped sending their "dues" (aka benevolent funds).

I'm on the other side, if the vote hadn't passed I would be an Episcopalian now (I just can't move to Unitarian). My active Lutheran relatives were going to no longer be ELCA if things went the other way at the church wide assembly.

This comes off as flip, but there are other Lutheran sects that are more conservative, being LCMS or WELS may work for those who cannot handle the same sex issues. I was at the point where I was giving up being Lutheran because as much as I love my faith, I feel stronger about inclusiveness. I actually know more people who are coming to the church or back to the church than are leaving. It will take some time but I think it will work out.

Plus what is more Lutheran than people branching out to start a new denomination?

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I'm on the other side, if the vote hadn't passed I would be an Episcopalian now (I just can't move to Unitarian). My active Lutheran relatives were going to no longer be ELCA if things went the other way at the church wide assembly.

This comes off as flip, but there are other Lutheran sects that are more conservative, being LCMS or WELS may work for those who cannot handle the same sex issues. I was at the point where I was giving up being Lutheran because as much as I love my faith, I feel stronger about inclusiveness. I actually know more people who are coming to the church or back to the church than are leaving. It will take some time but I think it will work out.

Plus what is more Lutheran than people branching out to start a new denomination?

FYI - I grew up in a strict LCMS church.

I don't mind the faith statement that was passed at all. I agree that love of neighbor should trump any sin they commit. However, as a Pastor? There's a passage that our Pastor pointed out 2 Sundays ago that gives the biblical list of qualifications of a Pastor. There is nothing on that list that deals with man/woman, so the woman Pastor thing doesn't bother me. There are, however, parts of that list that deal with Sexuality. Bible > Human Society.

[33girl]

Lutheran hijack:

Admittedly I've had my head elsewhere lately, but I read that statement, and it sounded like they're ok with a gay person in a committed relationship only. What about a single gay person? Why should they have to show they're in a relationship when a straight person does not?

I mean, do it all one way or do it all the other way, don't half-ass it.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

FYI - I grew up in a strict LCMS church.

I don't mind the faith statement that was passed at all. I agree that love of neighbor should trump any sin they commit. However, as a Pastor? There's a passage that our Pastor pointed out 2 Sundays ago that gives the biblical list of qualifications of a Pastor. There is nothing on that list that deals with man/woman, so the woman Pastor thing doesn't bother me. There are, however, parts of that list that deal with Sexuality. Bible > Human Society.

That's where translation of the Bible comes in, and with my background (religious and education) I've studied the translations and from my understanding of ancient languages the sexuality issue is often one of semantics and translations. It isn't how many people present it, and a lot of it came from rules about food and other things, and was expanded to same sex relationships.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Lutheran hijack:

Admittedly I've had my head elsewhere lately, but I read that statement, and it sounded like they're ok with a gay person in a committed relationship only. What about a single gay person? Why should they have to show they're in a relationship when a straight person does not?

I mean, do it all one way or do it all the other way, don't half-ass it.

My understanding from years ago, is that heterosexual pastors are held to the same standards. You're not supposed to be "living in sin" and out carousing. The wording was chosen as committed relationship because marriage isn't legal for same sex pastors in many states where the ELCA operates. One could always be single and be a pastor, but part of the issue stems from the legality or illegality of marriage of same sex relationship pastors.