Has the tradition of Legacies outgrown its usefulness?

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by DGTess

And now we're back to an earlier point... it's Panhellenic recruitment which, I submit, causes superficial rush, and which causes us to eliminate women too soon.

Apparently we disagree. I despise the Panhellenic system; you seem to believe it's the best thing there is. Adults can disagree.

So your proposed hypothetical solution to legacy issues is to eliminate formal recruitment?

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I despise the Panhellenic system; you seem to believe it's the best thing there is. Adults can disagree.

In your opinion, what might be better? Not being an ass - I'm genuinely curious as to what alternatives might be worthy of consideration.

[honeychile]

*migraine looming*

My thoughts of the current legacy system have nothing to do with rebelling against the NPC. I think that most of the Power Ladies of the NPC realize the same thing I'm seeing - too many legacies for the quota.

So far this season, one chapter of ADPi had 70 legacies rushing a chapter. Quota was in the 50's, and while the chapter took quota, only 17 of the legacies were offered a bid. One the other hand, I knew a legacy going through Recruitment at my chapter who was so insufferably rude, I might have hurled if she got a bid, no matter that her mother, two aunts, and 2 cousins were all ADPis!

Maybe there needs to be a Legacy/Super Legacy system? The Legacy is the woman born to a sorority, the Super Legacy is the woman born to a sorority whose mother/grandmother was actively involved (physically or financially) to a chapter or a direct descendent of a Founder - for example.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by honeychile

*migraine looming*

My thoughts of the current legacy system have nothing to do with rebelling against the NPC.

I think most of those types of comments were directed at DGTess, not you.

Originally Posted by honeychile

Maybe there needs to be a Legacy/Super Legacy system? The Legacy is the woman born to a sorority, the Super Legacy is the woman born to a sorority whose mother/grandmother was actively involved (physically or financially) to a chapter or a direct descendent of a Founder - for example.

Then we would run into the issue of asking "how involved is involved enough to be considered a Super Legacy?"

I can just hear the moms now:

"I was a housemom for 20 years, yet Amy Alpha's mom serves as National Officer for 5 and is a Super Legacy?! *^%^%$5%!!"

I promise I'm not nitpicking, just adding to the discussion. I don't have a better solution, lol.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Honestly though, the issue is to be expected. Sororities have been around for a long time. That alone would guarantee a lot of legacies. Add in the fact that grandchildren and nieces also counts and the number shoots through the roof.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

So your proposed hypothetical solution to legacy issues is to eliminate formal recruitment?

I just wonder how many women at CMU when DGTess was there DIDN'T "connect" with the sorority member writing them letters all summer, didn't bother to look at other groups and missed out on Greek life because Panhel wasn't running rush at least semi-properly.

This is what's happening at my school with the lack of a true formal rush - women are only focusing on one group and if they don't get a bid to that group, becoming anti-Greek - which is why these posts really piss me off. There's a big difference between "I didn't think of being Greek until I found XYZ" and "XYZ didn't give me a bid, so I won't think of being Greek." You can argue a chicken/egg scenario (i.e. Greek life was declining anyway, it has nothing to do with the rush method) but when you look at numbers with a formal rush in place and without it, I'd think you'd want to at least try.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Then we would run into the issue of asking "how involved is involved enough to be considered a Super Legacy?"

I can just hear the moms now:

"I was a housemom for 20 years, yet Amy Alpha's mom serves as National Officer for 5 and is a Super Legacy?! *^%^%$5%!!"

I promise I'm not nitpicking, just adding to the discussion. I don't have a better solution, lol.

I actually really like the idea of a "Super Legacy," because it indicates that the member has made a commitment to the organization. I'd prefer the "Super Legacy" idea to the idea that the daughter some woman who hasn't done anything for her sorority since college would get the same consideration as the daughter of a committed volunteer.

It wouldn't be THAT much of an issue, since even on a not-so-active alumnae level, most people are familiar with the local and national "Big Squirrels" (to steal a term from AGD) or a sorority's equivalent, that if their names came up in rush-related discussions, it would not be a surprise and that their daughter or sister would be considered a "Super Legacy." I know it's done in college admissions--the children of big donors and high-level alumni volunteers (class presidents, regional club presidents, interviewing chairs) do indeed get a second look.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I actually really like the idea of a "Super Legacy," because it indicates that the member has made a commitment to the organization. I'd prefer the "Super Legacy" idea to the idea that the daughter some woman who hasn't done anything for her sorority since college would get the same consideration as the daughter of a committed volunteer.

It wouldn't be THAT much of an issue, since even on a not-so-active alumnae level, most people are familiar with the local and national "Big Squirrels" (to steal a term from AGD) or a sorority's equivalent, that if their names came up in rush-related discussions, it would not be a surprise and that their daughter or sister would be considered a "Super Legacy." I know it's done in college admissions--the children of big donors and high-level alumni volunteers (class presidents, regional club presidents, interviewing chairs) do indeed get a second look.

I wasn't saying that I disagreed with the idea (I actually do think it would be good). I'm not a fan of the whole "I haven't lifted a finger for my sorority in 25 years but heaven forbid my daughter not be extended a bid" bit myself.

I'll probably get all kinds of flack for saying this, but I would fully support a system in which a dedicated alumna volunteer's daughter receives a higher legacy classification than the daughter of an alumna who hasn't been involved at all since graduation.

Just saying that I am pretty sure it would ruffle some Mommy feathers, as does anything that implies that someone else's kid gets extra consideration over their precious little darling.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I actually really like the idea of a "Super Legacy," because it indicates that the member has made a commitment to the organization. I'd prefer the "Super Legacy" idea to the idea that the daughter some woman who hasn't done anything for her sorority since college would get the same consideration as the daughter of a committed volunteer.

To play devil's advocate on that...there is also the "gorgeous man and gorgeous woman produce ugly baby" concept. I wouldn't be suprised if there are a few daughters out there of "Super Alums" who deeply resent all the time their mom gave to the sorority and are only grudgingly going through rush to please them, and who are going to be lukewarm at best members.

[Zillini]

One the one hand there are alumna who have dedicated years to their sorority in various ways (advising Chapters, House Corp members, I/natl officers, etc.) Without them the organizations would struggle and fail. To do that you know they have made family sacrifices over the years. Sweetie, Dad is taking you to dance class tonight because Mom has to go to Recruitment and won't be home until about 3am. I'm sorry honey, Mom has to miss your soccer game this weekend because of an out of town sorority conference. What a slap in the face to that dedicated alumna Mom when a Chapter releases her daughter!

Yet on the other hand working with the collegians I know how frustrating it can be to get a lot of pressure about legacies who really would not be a good fit. Membership decisions are supposed to be based on what is best for the Chapter, not for a single alumna.

And the simple fact remains that on some campuses there are simply more legacies than Quota allows. Cuts have to be made. It's a no win situation. When you cut legacies you face the wrath of angry alumnae and possibly even your I/natl org. On the flip side imagine the accusations of elitism and discrimination if a sorority were to pledge Quota with only legacies.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I'll probably get all kinds of flack for saying this, but I would fully support a system in which a dedicated alumna volunteer's daughter receives a higher legacy classification than the daughter of an alumna who hasn't been involved at all since graduation.

Just saying that I am pretty sure it would ruffle some Mommy feathers, as does anything that implies that someone else's kid gets extra consideration over their precious little darling.

This system has pretty much been in effect for selective colleges and universities for some time now and, for the most part, it works pretty well. There will be the occasional angry alumna/alumnus threatening to pull donations but chances are they weren't giving that much in the first place. Those who have worked hardest as a volunteer or donor understand how selective things are and are less likely to cause a fuss. I expect the same thing would happen with the "Super Legacy" system.

People might get ticked off for a day, but they'd get over it.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I despise the Panhellenic system; you seem to believe it's the best thing there is.

There's a difference between believing something is "the best thing there is" and believing that it is a workable, albeit flawed, system. I too would like to know what might be better - if you look at how much recruitment has changed over time, I'd say it has been improving. I love the new return system, for example.

It reminds me of grading - I hate the A, B, C, etc., system of grading, but in the absence of anything better, it's all I (as a teacher) have got.

[DoctorD]

As I was a legacy to another sorority, my mother swears to this day that I acted up at her sorority's chapter to cause me to be dropped by them after round 2. I have told her repeatedly that wasn't the case - it was clearly not a fit.

With the discussion about the idea of "super legacy," if such an animal existed, my daughters would be considered such when/if they go through recruitment in a few years. And while I already can imagine how I will feel/be during that point (a complete wreck during recruitment week!), the journey that they will make must be their own. If they aren't a fit for my organization, that's ok - and that fit can be from either side - theirs, or the chapter's. While I would love to not only call them my daughters but also my sisters, I want them to be happy and to know that they are supported regardless. I do want them to be considered more than the PNM who has no connection with the organization (which is what legacy status offers), and knowing that the chapter will look at them for at least two rounds gives me some comfort.

I think back to how things "used to be," prior to RFM, plus with the changes that my own organization has made to member selection, and I do think the system works way better than it used to. Perfect? no. Perhaps I'm too educated in the system, but at the same time I think "super legacy" status also means that the mother has a clue and recognizes the possibilities better than someone who has not been very involved in 20 years. Would I be hurt if my daughters were released? no. Disappointed? certainly. It would not cause me to stop being involved in my organization, but would certainly cause me to also be involved in theirs, helping at recruitment or whatever they wanted/needed me to do.

In the meantime, though, my daughters know about Greek Life, and have from a young age. They've watched me do sorority work and have conference calls with sisters, and asked why didn't I just meet with them (explaining that these women are all over the country was a fun conversation, btw). They've helped me shop for Convention. They've been to get togethers I've had with sorority sisters. The Purpose is on our refrigerator. They play with Alpha Gam word magnets I got from IHQ. They've looked through our brand new new member book, and my oldest daughter recently decided she needed to learn the Greek alphabet on her own. They have also looked at materials from other organizations that I have reviewed at some point as I try to ascertain trends within the Greek community (one of the reasons I'm on Greek Chat, btw). They have been exposed to other Greek organizations both at the college where I work and at the camp they go to, as a number of the senior counselors are Greek - and I think they are more aware of the fact that some of the counselors are in sororities and tell me about them because they know how involved I am in my own organization. They've watched me write recommendations for young women, and cheer loudly when I find out where they pledge [thus far it has never been for Alpha Gam]. At every turn, I focus on Panhellenic spirit, because in the long run, that's what is important. I know that we're all in the same boat, and offer a lot of the same things.

So, I guess I write all this to say I'm comfortable with the fact that we still talk about legacies and that they exist. Super legacy just doesn't feel as important.

The 2 cents of a "medium/big squirrel."

[Zeta_heart]

This subject has really touched my heart this recruitment. My real life little sister was going though recruitment. Having been a panhellenic recruitment chair, I advised her just as I would any other PNM. To keep her options open, to find her perfect fit, that just because I belonged to one GLO didn't mean she had to as well. However, as she went through recruitment she fell in love with the same organization I did. I couldn't blame her, they capture me too. I still encouraged her to keep looking at other places, but her heart was set.

I had helped her secure several recs from well established alums, some who serve as nationals officers. My sister knew how much I care about this organization, and as a current chapter president, she has seen my hardwork and the passion I put into it. To say my heart was broken when she was dropped before preference was an understatement. For something I love and work so hard for, to cut the person who means the most to me in the world is devestaing.

It is easy to say that, you have to look for the right fit, and that every chapter is different. But to watch my little sister cry her eyes out was the most heartbreaking thing in the world. I think we really need to take a look at the legacy women we are turning away. We are losing way too many women that could contribute to our organizations. I know my sister for one would have, without a doubt, been a loyal and comitted member, who continued to give back after graduation.

Being a Legacy is such an important thing, were all our organizations not found on the idea of sisterhood, of tradition, of empowering women? I hope in the future things will change, and young women on various campuses will see the value of legacy members, too many are turned away because of some unwritten bias.

Sorry for being so long, but this has topic has really recently touched my heart.

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by Zeta_heart

This subject has really touched my heart this recruitment. My real life little sister was going though recruitment. Having been a panhellenic recruitment chair, I advised her just as I would any other PNM. To keep her options open, to find her perfect fit, that just because I belonged to one GLO didn't mean she had to as well. However, as she went through recruitment she fell in love with the same organization I did. I couldn't blame her, they capture me too. I still encouraged her to keep looking at other places, but her heart was set.

I had helped her secure several recs from well established alums, some who serve as nationals officers. My sister knew how much I care about this organization, and as a current chapter president, she has seen my hardwork and the passion I put into it. To say my heart was broken when she was dropped before preference was an understatement. For something I love and work so hard for, to cut the person who means the most to me in the world is devestaing.

It is easy to say that, you have to look for the right fit, and that every chapter is different. But to watch my little sister cry her eyes out was the most heartbreaking thing in the world. I think we really need to take a look at the legacy women we are turning away. We are losing way too many women that could contribute to our organizations. I know my sister for one would have, without a doubt, been a loyal and comitted member, who continued to give back after graduation.

Being a Legacy is such an important thing, were all our organizations not found on the idea of sisterhood, of tradition, of empowering women? I hope in the future things will change, and young women on various campuses will see the value of legacy members, too many are turned away because of some unwritten bias.

Sorry for being so long, but this has topic has really recently touched my heart.

I really don't think that's it at all. At a lot of campus it's simply a number thing. If quota is 50 and there are 75 legacies to XYZ they can't take all of them. And even then what about new members, who are not legacies.