Auburn Recruitment

[SWTXBelle]

I have actually advised girls going through recruitment at very competitive schools to NOT list their legacy chapter(s) on the panhellenic form - just have the family members send a legacy notification form to the chapter/write a rec. I hate to say it, but I've known too many cases where being a known legacy to another house may have hurt a pnm's chances - of course, we'll never know for sure, but there just doesn't seem to be much of a reason to let other houses know you are a legacy to another house.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I have actually advised girls going through recruitment at very competitive schools to NOT list their legacy chapter(s) on the panhellenic form - just have the family members send a legacy notification form to the chapter/write a rec. I hate to say it, but I've known too many cases where being a known legacy to another house may have hurt a pnm's chances - of course, we'll never know for sure, but there just doesn't seem to be much of a reason to let other houses know you are a legacy to another house.

I agree. I think we may be overestimating the effect of being a legacy at other chapters because there's no way of really knowing why a girl was released and the increasing number of legacies might make bad outcomes seem more common.

But other than communicating that you would really understand the commitment of being greek, it's hard to see how it benefits the PNM at all to list it.

Perhaps we all should push to have panhellenic drop the question from their recruitment forms.

SWTXBelle, can you bring yourself to leave the information off your RIFs or recs when you know a girl is a legacy to another group? I have a hard time with this. It's one thing to encourage a girl to omit information that no group particularly needs, but knowingly withholding it from my own group is much harder. It's specifically requested by our form.

[pam713]

We really debated whether to list my daughter's legacy chapter or not on the registration form. The panhellenic advisor at Auburn, during a Camp War Eagle presentation, specifically said to list your legacy and that it wouldn't hurt your chances. My daughter listed hers, but we have no idea if that's hurt her or not. Fortunately, her legacy group has kept her so far.

[UGAalum94]

In the first years of release figures, I can see chapters trying to use legacy status at other chapters as a way to read the tea-leaves of who a PNM was really interested in when they had to make big releases in early rounds.

After a couple of years seeing how many legacies don't pledge at their legacy chapters, I suspect that they would stop trying to consider it because it wouldn't actually help them predict anything.

But there'd still be no reason to list it.

[Katmandu]

But aren't there so many legacies going through recruitment at schools such as Auburn that it's kind of a wash? I mean, girls get cut for a variety of reasons, including simple math. Too many great potential members, not enough space.

It's very easy and understandable to blame cuts on legacy status, when it could be a variety of reasons, or none in particular.

I don't know whether it's best for PNMs to put it on their registration forms or not, but if I am writing a rec on a girl and know she is a legacy to another organization, I list it. I want my organization to have all available information, including the fact that the girl in question and her family have a familiarity with greek life and its obligations. If I know the girl personally and know that she is open to other organizations and not set on her legacy, I make a point of noting that as well.

[UGAalum94]

I know what you mean, Katmandu. So far I've always listed the legacy statuses that I was aware of for the reasons that you mention.

But I wish I were 100% sure that it's working like we hope and that other chapters don't make assumptions.

[katijane]

Originally Posted by HuskyAlum

From first hand knowledge, this would be false.

Auburn uses ICS, which after years of being out on the market is utterly fool proof right about now. When I was Panhel President we had the Panhel VP of Recruitment "accidentally" hit "some button" and wiped out all PNM & chapter selections. HOWEVER, the folks at ICS use way complicated programs and all of the information was backed up. So the likelyhood of any REAL computer glitches at ANY campus that uses ICS is, IMHO, impossible.

I just had to hop in (a little late) and say that this very same thing happened at our campus last year. I was VP of Recruitment and our President at the time was "working on something", when, all of a sudden all of the data "mysteriously" dissapeared. It was our first year using ICS, so of course everyone was worried (from hearing horror stories) but after a few small heart attacks we got all of the data back and finished up the weekend swimmingly!!

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I know what you mean, Katmandu. So far I've always listed the legacy statuses that I was aware of for the reasons that you mention.

But I wish I were 100% sure that it's working like we hope and that other chapters don't make assumptions.

I think that telling your own sisters that someone is a legacy to another chapter is different, since you wouldn't be writing a recommendation if you didn't think your sisters should seriously consider the pnm. If a recommendation form didn't ask for the information, I would not necessarily offer it.(I don't want to get into membership selection, and fear I might if I went into any more detail.) But, since your form asks for it, UGAalumna, I'd give it.

If I knew the pnm had a strong leaning towards her legacy chapter(s) I would certainly tell, but I would decide on a case by case basis.

[PJS]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I have actually advised girls going through recruitment at very competitive schools to NOT list their legacy chapter(s) on the panhellenic form - just have the family members send a legacy notification form to the chapter/write a rec. I hate to say it, but I've known too many cases where being a known legacy to another house may have hurt a pnm's chances - of course, we'll never know for sure, but there just doesn't seem to be much of a reason to let other houses know you are a legacy to another house.

My second daughter is going through recruitment this fall. Daughter #1 was cut by my house and also received fairly heavy cuts elsewhere; of course I wondered if the legacy status hurt her. Daughter #2 goes through this fall (same campus), but we decided to list her statuses (she also has one additional legacy house to list), hoping that showing a "multipanhellenic" status will help "blunt" the effect of having a sister who is an active. Since Daughter #1 knows lots of people in other houses, we felt it was the better choice. We think it was a good thing, because both daughters have talked to actives the last few weeks who have said variations of "I guess it won't do any good to rush you/your sister since you'll probably pledge XYZ!"

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I think that telling your own sisters that someone is a legacy to another chapter is different, since you wouldn't be writing a recommendation if you didn't think your sisters should seriously consider the pnm. If a recommendation form didn't ask for the information, I would not necessarily offer it.(I don't want to get into membership selection, and fear I might if I went into any more detail.) But, since your form asks for it, UGAalumna, I'd give it.

If I knew the pnm had a strong leaning towards her legacy chapter(s) I would certainly tell, but I would decide on a case by case basis.

I don't always know, but when I do, I've listed it.

I've come to believe that legacies mean very little unless the sister is currently in the house or has very recently graduated. If I know how little being a legacy seems to matter, I can't believe that the other chapters don't.

I'm not sure that the perception that revealing them is damaging isn't really caused by other unrelated factors: bigger releases with RFM, more legacies being out there as more women have gone to college in the last few generations, grade inflation in high school and "the organization kid"(http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200104/brooks) type become ubiquitous, making it harder for any girl to really seem outstanding. It's hard for girls, their parents, and the alumnae they know to predict what will happen, and it seems to me that more PNM feel entitled to only join the very "top chapters."

I think sometimes people who are unhappy with their immediate outcomes see systematic failure where none may really exist, and we might be projecting that on to legacy status.

[BlueCarnation]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I don't always know, but when I do, I've listed it.

I've come to believe that legacies mean very little unless the sister is currently in the house or has very recently graduated. If I know how little being a legacy seems to matter, I can't believe that the other chapters don't.

I'm not sure that the perception that revealing them is damaging isn't really caused by other unrelated factors: bigger releases with RFM, more legacies being out there as more women have gone to college in the last few generations, grade inflation in high school and "the organization kid"(http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200104/brooks) type become ubiquitous, making it harder for any girl to really seem outstanding. It's hard for girls, their parents, and the alumnae they know to predict what will happen, and it seems to me that more PNM feel entitled to only join the very "top chapters."

I think sometimes people who are unhappy with their immediate outcomes see systematic failure where none may really exist, and we might be projecting that on to legacy status.

I agree. We had a quota of 45 and one of the chapters on our campus allegedly had over 150 legacies go through recruitment. Obviously you are not going to take a pledge class full of legacies. They ended up taking 3, and all 3 had sisters in the house already. I think legacies are just another way to get you a second look, but don't matter that much. If a chapter likes you, whether or not you are a legacy will usually make little difference.

[Katmandu]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I've come to believe that legacies mean very little unless the sister is currently in the house or has very recently graduated. If I know how little being a legacy seems to matter, I can't believe that the other chapters don't.

I'm not sure that the perception that revealing them is damaging isn't really caused by other unrelated factors: bigger releases with RFM, more legacies being out there as more women have gone to college in the last few generations, grade inflation in high school and "the organization kid"(http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200104/brooks) type become ubiquitous, making it harder for any girl to really seem outstanding. It's hard for girls, their parents, and the alumnae they know to predict what will happen, and it seems to me that more PNM feel entitled to only join the very "top chapters."

I think sometimes people who are unhappy with their immediate outcomes see systematic failure where none may really exist, and we might be projecting that on to legacy status.

^^^^ This is well put.

[Just interested]

I know of 2 groups at UT (from moms who have received the call) who have already been informed that their legacies are not on their legacy list to recruit for membership in that chapter. (There maybe more groups) When you have 150 legacies and quota is 50 it doesn't take much to do the math. Legacies are just that, a special consideration.

Also, I don't think we are giving our chapters enough credit. They know who is going where for the most part and who are the legacies from other groups they have a chance to get. Trust me, our chapters have done their homework, they know who is a fit and who isn't.

[GPhiBLtColonel]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I agree. I think we may be overestimating the effect of being a legacy at other chapters because there's no way of really knowing why a girl was released and the increasing number of legacies might make bad outcomes seem more common.

But other than communicating that you would really understand the commitment of being greek, it's hard to see how it benefits the PNM at all to list it.

Perhaps we all should push to have panhellenic drop the question from their recruitment forms.

SWTXBelle, can you bring yourself to leave the information off your RIFs or recs when you know a girl is a legacy to another group? I have a hard time with this. It's one thing to encourage a girl to omit information that no group particularly needs, but knowingly withholding it from my own group is much harder. It's specifically requested by our form.

There is a local girl rushing now at Auburn and she is a double XYZ legacy (thru her sisters) and a double ABC legacy (Mom & Grandmother). This PNM's oldest sister graduated from Auburn two years ago - she broke the mold by not joining her legacy sorority (ABC). Now the middle sister is the current president of XYZ. I have know her mom for years and she told me that this daughter really wanted to blaze her own path and was not necessarily going to join XYZ if she got a bid. So on her her GPB rec, it said something to the effect of "Susie PNM is not necessarily going to join her sister's sorority so please do not count her out just because of her legacy ties. Please give her every consideration if you all want her to be GPB...because I would love for her to be my sister!" You get the picture....

Of course this only works if you actually know the legacy and that she truly is interested in other sororities besides her legacy group.

I think Katmandu mentioned doing something like this too....

On a related note: this is an extract from an email our local Alum Panhel president got from Bama Greek Life:

"Additionally, some chapters have more than 200 legacies participating in recruitment; therefore, they have twice as many legacies going through recruitment than what quota could be anticipated to be. Needless to say, this prevents some chapters from pledging a majority of their legacies."

[tainey]

Best wishes to all! What a horrible week to live through and you don't know how hard until you are the mother! It does all work out!