How insulting is Colored (vs. African American)

[Xanthus]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

What does that have to do with this topic?

This topic is always an issue. When you go to Great Britain or Germany etc, you don't see African German, or African Brit etc. The people over there are known as British or German. Why can't it be like that here?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Xanthus

This topic is always an issue. When you go to Great Britain or Germany etc, you don't see African German, or African Brit etc. The people over there are known as British or German. Why can't it be like that here?

Welcome to the melting pot/salad bowl/whatever metaphor works for you.

And no, you don't see African Germans or African Brits -- but you very likely well may see an attitude of Brits/Germans and "immigrants" (Turks, Pakistanis, take your pick), even if the "immigrants'" families have been there for a few generations.

[Xanthus]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Welcome to the melting pot/salad bowl/whatever metaphor works for you.

And no, you don't see African Germans or African Brits -- but you very likely well may see an attitude of Brits/Germans and "immigrants" (Turks, Pakistanis, take your pick), even if the "immigrants'" families have been there for a few generations.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It's not like that in Germany, either. Germany also has racial and ethnic distinctions. Ever notice that not all Germans speak German or that it isn't everyone's native language, for instance?

LOL...there is also a distinction between Germany as a nationality and German as a European ethnicity. Almost every society that has racial and/or ethnic diversity of any sort has ways of distinguishing groups from one another.

This topic isn't about nationality.

I agree with both of these posts. A friend of mine was in the Marines and was stationed in Germany for two years, and he said the same thing. However, he did say he didn't see the color barrier like he sees it over here. It's not going to be a perfect country, but I think we will be moving in the right direction by getting rid of the "African American", "Asian American", "Native American" etc... on the legal forms/placement exams etc....

[moe.ron]

Originally Posted by Xanthus

I agree with both of these posts. A friend of mine was in the Marines and was stationed in Germany for two years, and he said the same thing. However, he did say he didn't see the color barrier like he sees it over here.

There's definately a color barrier there. It's just hidden better and they just don't talk about it. It's more open and freely discussed in the US. Just ask anybody from Turkey about the color barriers.

[Xanthus]

Originally Posted by moe.ron

There's definately a color barrier there. It's just hidden better and they just don't talk about it. It's more open and freely discussed in the US. Just ask anybody from Turkey about the color barriers.

Technically, the color barrier is everywhere, but here it's taken to another level. I'll use Russia as an example. Over there, especially when it was the Soviet Union, it was more status based. I have a friend who lived there when it was the USSR changed over to just Russia. He said it was a drastic change, but he didn't see a color issue because it just wasn't there. I'm sure if it would have they would probably have the same problem. Here, I believe it's taken further though. I'm sure Turkey is like that also, I know India is. Nothern Indians have a lighter complexion than Southern Indian, or the other way around. I keep forgetting. But I know there is a big color barrier there. In the U.S. there are too many labels.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by Tired Black Man

And before I get started, you try this shit with me and I will beat the hell out of you with an extension cord. You hear me?

Originally Posted by DrPhil

^^^ A poor attempt at a racial parody.

Even so, I actually did just wince at a particulary bad memory...

Out of curiosity, have threads like this been started regarding any other races and their label preferences? Can anyone recall one? Because I can't even remember having a conversation let alone a debate about this when it's someone else's race.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

Even so, I actually did just wince at a particulary bad memory...

Out of curiosity, have threads like this been started regarding any other races and their label preferences? Can anyone recall one? Because I can't even remember having a conversation let alone a debate about this when it's someone else's race.

I don't remember seeing any threads. They usually get thrown into the "black" threads. It's weird, though, because I've listened in on "Hispanic vs Latino" (and even "Asian vs Oriental") debates IRL.

[Xanthus]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

So, you prefer class, status and caste distinctions and hierarchies over race and ethnicity?

In racially and ethnically heterogeneous contexts, class, status and race intersect so much that they are almost interchangeable. Whether based on class, status, race and ethnicity, region, or complexion; the U.S. does not have more labels than other heterogeneous nations.

I don't know. It seems like the U.S. has more labels based on color than anything else. Class and status separation are everywhere, but placing someone in different categories based on race alone, seems to happen here more. I know people who have move here from other countries. They said race separation is looked at much more differently when compared to where they once lived. Great Britain and Germany. I'm not sure if I'm understanding what you're posting, but the way I'm reading it is you mean diverse. Right?

[DrPhil]

Other countries sometimes call it something other than "race," because race is considered a North American construct, but it is all the same general construct and social hierarchy.

You don't have to rely on the selective and limited observations of the people you know who lived in other countries. There is a ton of interesting literature on this that you can check out to satisfy your curiosities.

ETA: People who live in settings in America and overseas where everyone looks alike often claim that there are no racial (and similar) distinctions made between people. Well, of course if you're basing your opinions on such matters solely on what you see, you wouldn't observe anything if 95% of the people in the areas you are in look the same. Even in more diverse settings, a lot of people are waiting for some overt sign of distinctions made between people, usually a form of bigotry. "I've never seen a minority person be mistreated;" "Minorities walk around and they are barely noticed as minorities, so race doesn't matter;" and "we call people by their names and not by their races" are common responses that actually have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Xanthus

I agree with both of these posts. A friend of mine was in the Marines and was stationed in Germany for two years, and he said the same thing. However, he did say he didn't see the color barrier like he sees it over here. It's not going to be a perfect country, but I think we will be moving in the right direction by getting rid of the "African American", "Asian American", "Native American" etc... on the legal forms/placement exams etc....

The selective observations of a Marine stationed in Germany for two years mean absolutely nothing.

Arguably, both America and Germany are no where near getting rid of those categories in everyday life and on forms and exams. We don't need to, either. People confuse social equality and nationalism with a need for being "color blind" or erasing any distinctions between people. We can reduce discrimination and inequality without pretending that we're all the same people holding hands in the sunlight. The need for the false utopia is what I consider to be a 2 year old child's concept of social life.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

People confuse social equality and nationalism with a need for being "color blind" or erasing any distinctions between people. We can reduce discrimination and inequality without pretending that we're all the same people holding hands in the sunlight. The need for the false utopia is what I consider to be a 2 year old child's concept of social life.

This is probably the best summation of that particular point I have ever read. Some people still don't understand that Brown vs. Board of Ed was about getting equal educational opportunities with schools that had actually been updated since the 1920s - not about "pleeeease give me the privilege of sitting in class with white people!"

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by 33girl

This is probably the best summation of that particular point I have ever read. Some people still don't understand that Brown vs. Board of Ed was about getting equal educational opportunities with schools that had actually been updated since the 1920s - not about "pleeeease give me the privilege of sitting in class with white people!"

Exactly. There is absolutely nothing wrong with celebrating different cultures, ethnicities, and races; however, there is something wrong with being intolerant of our differences.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Xanthus

This topic is always an issue. When you go to Great Britain or Germany etc, you don't see African German, or African Brit etc. The people over there are known as British or German. Why can't it be like that here?

It's not like that in Germany, either. Germany also has racial and ethnic distinctions. Ever notice that not all Germans speak German or that it isn't everyone's native language, for instance?

LOL...there is also a distinction between Germany as a nationality and German as a European ethnicity. Almost every society that has racial and/or ethnic diversity of any sort has ways of distinguishing groups from one another.

This topic isn't about nationality.