Supreme Court backs New Haven Firefighters

[DrPhil]

I can see both sides of the issue. I think the court did what makes sense and sets a good precedent given the context.

The test wasn't deemed discriminatory by intent. It was exclusionary by outcome.

The fire department probably should have kept the test results and studied them by race in order to impliment changes for the future. Throwing the test results out wasn't a good idea.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I can see both sides of the issue. I think the court did what makes sense and sets a good precedent given the context.

I agree.

The test wasn't deemed discriminatory by intent. It was exclusionary by outcome.

What do you mean by this? I don't understand. I mean, I can see where the test was not meant to be discriminatory, but how was the outcome exclusionary, based on race, I presume?

[starang21]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

but how was the outcome exclusionary, based on race, I presume?

no black firefighters and only one latino fire fighters got promoted.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by starang21

no black firefighters and only one latino fire fighters got promoted.

NO. No one got promoted because no black firefighters and only one latino fire fighter scored well enough to be promoted.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...in;contentBody

One of the things that's interesting to me about this is that at one point someone tried to review the test to see what was biased about the questions asked. I'm trying to find a link to the results.

I can't find the article I remember reading but this discusses some of the issues:http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news...e=1&cat=&more=

[starang21]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

NO. No one got promoted because no black firefighters and only one latino fire fighters scored well enough to be promoted.

well, yea. ok, the reason i stated was the reason the test got thrown out initially.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by starang21

well, yea. ok, the reason i stated was the reason the test got thrown out initially.

No it wasn't, because like UGAalum94 says, no one got promoted.

The test results were thrown out because (again, as UGAalum94 says) no black firefighters and only one latino fire fighters scored well enough to be promoted to begin with, leading the city to believe that if it certified and relied on the test results, the city would be open to a lawsuit claiming that the test was unfair to non-whites. So instead, they got a lawsuit from the employees who would have been promoted had the test results been certified.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The test results were thrown out because (again, as UGAalum94 says) no black firefighters and only one latino fire fighters scored well enough to be promoted to begin with

Originally Posted by me

no black firefighters and only one latino fire fighter

good grief. talk about majoring in minors. that was the geist of my post.

[Munchkin03]

I'm confused as to how this made it all the way to the Supreme Court. It seems pretty cut and dried to me in that the test results should not have been thrown out. Am I missing something? I am definitely not a Sotomayor fan, but I don't think that has colored my viewpoint on this.

Was the content like the professional exams, where they're based on things you were taught in school and learned on the job? Or are they more like the HS standardized exams? I know there's an alleged class/race bias on those tests, but I know that there aren't any in the other professional exams.

I couldn't find this in any article, but was the content determined to be biased against the minority candidates? Was the testing information widely available for review and practice?

I mean, I have exams I have to take and pass in order to become registered. If I fail one, just because I'm black doesn't mean that they should throw out the test results for everyone.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I'm confused as to how this made it all the way to the Supreme Court. It seems pretty cut and dried to me in that the test results should not have been thrown out. Am I missing something? I am definitely not a Sotomayor fan, but I don't think that has colored my viewpoint on this.

Was the content like the professional exams, where they're based on things you were taught in school and learned on the job? Or are they more like the HS standardized exams? I know there's an alleged class/race bias on those tests, but I know that there aren't any in the other professional exams.

I couldn't find this in any article, but was the content determined to be biased against the minority candidates? Was the testing information widely available for review and practice?

I mean, I have exams I have to take and pass in order to become registered. If I fail one, just because I'm black doesn't mean that they should throw out the test results for everyone.

Thank you!

The fact that this made it to the Supreme Court amazes me.

Whether the test was analyzed for racial biases or not, how can a FIREFIGHTING TEST be geared toward whites? It makes me extremely mad to think that New Haven might have thought, "Well, only white people passed. That's not fair. And we don't want to get sued." I'm sorry, but if any of the people who didn't pass the test had sued, that case probably never would have seen the inside of a courtroom. At least it shouldn't have, because there would have been absolutely no justification for it.

I don't know about anyone here, but when people show up to my house to rescue me from a possible fiery death, I want people who know what they're doing. I don't care if they're white, black, blue, green or purple. If you're educated and trained enough to save my life, then come get me. But if you can't pass the firefighting test, go study more.

New Haven actually decided that promotions, that were apparently necessary in the FIRE DEPARTMENT, could be put on hold because only whites passed. That's sad.