Race & Sororities

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Where's the debate? I didn't say probably! Besides, I still think that the poster above kind of made that up out of a previously documented sense of paranoia.

It just seems like a thing that someone would say to discourage a friend or family member to join a specific sorority, based more on a lack of understanding than any real truth.

I agree; there's a difference between saying that there are some racist/discriminatory chapters out there, and setting it up like that's the norm. At the end of the day, in most cases, you're relying on rumor and guesses because of the secrecy of the intake/membership selection process.

That said, I always cringe when I see posters putting up this much information, whether it's during the rush process, while pledging, or even during their time as an undergrad brother/sister. It's been shown that a lot of undergrads read Greekchat, and getting into too much detail with regards to ANY issue will likely create more headaches for the poster.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I agree; there's a difference between saying that there are some racist/discriminatory chapters out there, and setting it up like that's the norm.

I don't know if that particular poster did the latter. It looks more like she did the former.

It isn't like she said she HEARD that most NPC chapters give nonwhite pledges a hard time. (But, I also didn't read her posts that thoroughly )

[SWTXBelle]

But . ..but . ..didn't you read "Pledged"? You KNOW that's true, so OF COURSE all the stories you hear are true!


eta - I do sometimes wonder about motivation. Hmmm . . . how could it benefit NPHC members to make pnms of colour think they will not have a chance at NPC recruitment, or if they do get a bid they will get hazed? It is a sad fact that even within the hallowed halls of NPC some chapters will discuss other chapters in such a way as to make pursuing membership with the other chapters sound impossible or negative. While recognizing that most NPHC members have far too much justifible pride in their own GLOs to stoop to trash talking the NPC, I have to ask why else would someone be so vehement about NPC membership selection being racist?

eta yet again - Ideally, any pnm would feel free to research both NPC and NPHC memberships and make her choice based on the very different but equally beneficial experiences offered by the groups. That's why I hate the continuing spreading of half-truths and rumours. If quality women of colour don't go through NPC recruitment, the cycle will not end. So at the end of the day, I want to encourage women of every colour to pursue membership in the group they feel will be their true sisterhood. That's my motivation.

[Ch2tf]

As for the NPC Racism issue, I'm still trying figure out why there is an effort to sugar coat the fact that she MIGHT have a hard time joining an NPC chapter at her particular school. Southern rush as been discussed here on numerous occasions, and there have been posters that either directly or indirectly posted about the difficulties (or impossibilities) of a person on color/minority (what ever they may happen to be) will have in rushing. That doesn't mean that the entire NPC is racist or even that <insert org here> that has a chapter at her school is racist. But to deny that it isn't possible is irresponsible.

The advice to go for it, be the best PNM possible, etc. is good advice. And no she may never know for certain how the decision about her selection was made. But if that is what she wants, then she should pursue it.

To the OP,
I really can't believe that you just equated the entire Black Experience/Identity to College Hill! I'm truly at a loss for words at that. But I can say you will continually be ostracized or whatever it is you feel if you're approaching black people with the "you're all alike but I'm different/better" attitude.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

To the OP,
I really can't believe that you just equated the entire Black Experience/Identity to College Hill! I'm truly at a loss for words at that. But I can say you will continually be ostracized or whatever it is you feel if you're approaching black people with the "you're all alike but I'm different/better" attitude.

But isn't that exactly the mentality that is evident from the tone of the initial post? There is the inherent suggestion that there is something limited or limiting about NPHC membership. Are you really that surprised?

[Ch2tf]

In her initial post I actually didn't read it that way. But as she continued to post there were red flags that went up that made me question my initial reading. The College Hill post pushed it over the line.

[SWTXBelle]

It's not "sugar coatiing" - it's asking that those who are merely guessing, or relying on hearsay, or gut instinct not to pass on their opinion as fact, ESPECIALLY since none of those posters have any idea of what happens during a NPC chapter selection process. Reading Pledged does not count. Any NPC member who would discuss chapter selection is, as I stated earlier, suspect. Yes, I would think she is stupid rather than honest. Let's pretend that a woman was cut for her colour - wouldn't you have to be a special kinda stupid to announce that to the world at large?

No one in the NPC has said that race might NOT be an issue - only that there is plenty of concrete evidence to say that there are many other factors in play, and that the question of race should not prevent a pnm from trying for membership. Racist individual members and perhaps even chapters? Yes. Racist NPC member groups? No.

This all brings to mind certain heresay accounts of NPHC groups using skin colour as a deciding factor in membership selection. I immediately discounted it as the kind of urban legend - and I would never tell some pnm who was looking into NPHC that she should just be aware that her skin colour was too dark/too light for the group she was interested in - not only is it outta my lane, it is giving credence to the kind of heresay that we should all be on guard against.

So if we all agree that the op should give it her best shot, understanding that recruitment at Ole Miss is HIGHLY competitive and that many qualified white women find themselves cut for unknown reasons, then there really is nothing at issue, is there?

eta - I've been an active alumnae for over 20 years, and worked with several different NPC systems at different colleges, and been involved in 3 different Alumnae Panhellenics. That's what my experience is - so before you call anyone ignorant, cite your sources for your information. No one has said is isn't a possibility - but we are dealing in concrete reality. Second-hand accounts of what some mystery person supposedly said are not very convincing.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

But . ..but . ..didn't you read "Pledged"? You KNOW that's true, so OF COURSE all the stories you hear are true!


eta - I do sometimes wonder about motivation. Hmmm . . . how could it benefit NPHC members to make pnms of colour think they will not have a chance at NPC recruitment, or if they do get a bid they will get hazed? It is a sad fact that even within the hallowed halls of NPC some chapters will discuss other chapters in such a way as to make pursuing membership with the other chapters sound impossible or negative. While recognizing that most NPHC members have far too much justifible pride in their own GLOs to stoop to trash talking the NPC, I have to ask why else would someone be so vehement about NPC membership selection being racist?

eta yet again - Ideally, any pnm would feel free to research both NPC and NPHC memberships and make her choice based on the very different but equally beneficial experiences offered by the groups. That's why I hate the continuing spreading of half-truths and rumours. If quality women of colour don't go through NPC recruitment, the cycle will not end. So at the end of the day, I want to encourage women of every colour to pursue membership in the group they feel will be their true sisterhood. That's my motivation.

I'm amazed at the fact that you continue to sum it all up by saying that quality black women don't apply. WOW. Like I said before, the lack of acceptance is always done in a genteel manner. And the excuse is always that the person wasn't of "quality." lol

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I'm amazed at the fact that you continue to sum it all up by saying that quality black women don't apply. WOW. Like I said before, the lack of acceptance is always done in a genteel manner. And the excuse is always that the person wasn't of "quality." lol

If that's what you got out of my posting, you need to work on your reading comprehension. I gave you the specific example of Southern Methodist University, where it was indeed the case that no black women had applied when the NPC groups were being roasted in the press. I cited a very specific example to back up my assertion. You should try it some time.

And FYI - of course all of our pnms who are not invited (the literally hundreds every chapter at a major system has to cut) are done so in a genteel manner. There are no "excuses" given - none needed. Membership selection is private and you, deepimpact, have NO EXPERIENCE OR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT ENTAILS.

I am encouraging women to pursue NPC membership with an open mind - what is it exactly you are doing?

[deepimpact2]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...,58980,00.html

GEORGIA
Athens 2000 A member of the Alpha Gamma Delta sorority filed a racial discrimination complaint when other members insisted on rejecting a black freshman applicant. The University of Georgia temporarily suspended the sorority during an investigation.
Hanover 2000 A Dartmouth sorority held a "slave auction" fundraiser.
Hanover 10/98 More than 400 dartmouth students protest against a fraternity-sorority "ghetto party" where students were urged to dress as inner-city blacks

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=165763&sectioncode=26
These are just a few incidents involving predominately white sororities and fraternities. It's not just hearsay or instinct or gossip, and for the record I have never read Pledged so you need to stop even bringing that up.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...,58980,00.html

GEORGIA
Athens 2000 A member of the Alpha Gamma Delta sorority filed a racial discrimination complaint when other members insisted on rejecting a black freshman applicant. The University of Georgia temporarily suspended the sorority during an investigation.
Hanover 2000 A Dartmouth sorority held a "slave auction" fundraiser.
Hanover 10/98 More than 400 dartmouth students protest against a fraternity-sorority "ghetto party" where students were urged to dress as inner-city blacks

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=165763&sectioncode=26
These are just a few incidents involving predominately white sororities and fraternities. It's not just hearsay or instinct or gossip, and for the record I have never read Pledged so you need to stop even bringing that up.

So are we discussing race as a criteria for selection? If so, only one of your posts is relevent - and filing a lawsuit proves nothing. The article you cite is 9 years old, and we aren't told the result of it. What if AGD was proven innocent? The article ends in a discussion of the dialogue engendered by the incident, so 9 years later one would hope - and barring any other evidence to the contrary, believe, that the campus has made progress.

Whether or not you read "Pledged" is not the point - the point is that you still cite what "everybody knows". Bringing in random articles about racially insensitive actions by individual chapters is a little off-topic and a great deal desperate. Obviously you are far too invested in the idea that NPC membership selection simply must be racist. Why, I can't say, but it's a little sad. So I'm done - I think my posts speak to the issue at hand, and if you want to go off on some racially charged tangent I'd suggest starting a new thread, or bumping an old one.

Nothing new to see here, move along.