Drug Testing for welfare recipients

[RU OX Alum]

I oppose this measure, it will only make things worse for everyone in those communities, will add to the already sky-high costs of some of these programs, adding extra staff, etc.

Kevin, you have a good point, but I don't really think that adding more government programs on top of government programs that have already been "tweaked" by just about every congress since they began, will work to help fix said government programs. It just seems like more red tape that eventually people will find loopholes in/their way around.

[DaemonSeid]

I think the reason why I am 'for' it (altho I am interested in the details) is that i have personally have seen and dealt with clients and neighbors who had deep ties with drugs where if they weren't selling, they were using or whose kids were deeply involved as the drug trade was a supplemental income.

In some places, there are rules that more or less state that if a Section 8 residence has X amount of police calls due to drug activity, they can be evicted.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

I oppose this measure, it will only make things worse for everyone in those communities, will add to the already sky-high costs of some of these programs, adding extra staff, etc.

Kevin, you have a good point, but I don't really think that adding more government programs on top of government programs that have already been "tweaked" by just about every congress since they began, will work to help fix said government programs. It just seems like more red tape that eventually people will find loopholes in/their way around.

It'll save money on the one hand because you're right, folks will be turned away. On the other, it'll probably result in more crime and more homelessness as people aren't going to let themselves starve or go cold turkey.

It all depends on what you think welfare should be -- a hand up or a means to keep the poor fat dumb and happy. I think it should be the former. Further, I think this policy could really work if we were to adopt a Netherlands-style drug policy.

[nikki1920]

Kevin: I agree with you on the second part of your post. I say tax the drugs, make small dosages legal and keep it moving.

Welfare was supposed to be a temporary stop gap for families in between jobs. Somehow it morphed into this generational thing. The reform that occurred in 1996 attempted to stop that, to varying degrees of success. What it's supposed to be and what I see every day don't match up.

[madmax]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

What say you?


.

Do away with welfare. Problem solved.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by madmax

Do away with welfare. Problem solved.

Ain't happening...get over it.

[BaltoAlphaPsi]

I think that this could be pretty positive, just because less people would recieve aid. Perhaps it will help people in bad situations realize they need to get clean. If you're too far gone on crack, heroin, meth, then you're too far gone. Plain and simple. But its an incentive to get clean for a lot of people I should hope. I mean, the war on drugs what did it really do?

I do agree with a lot of comments.... how meny parents would give up drugs? But again, if you're too far gone/two selfish, you don't get any sympathy from me. And for that i'll pull the arugument, you can get tested so my taxes don't go toward your drug addiction.

If you need assistance for a few months, you make an effort, you cut back, stop going out to eat, and are activly looking for a new job, then i'll try to help, and i'm for you getting you aid. But again, i wont pay for your drug addiction.

[DSTRen13]

Drug testing, I am for. Required contraception, I am very strongly against.

[Honeykiss1974]

What percentage of druggies are even on welfare? Will a law like this REALLY give the impact (reduced cost) that we think? I don't think so. In fact, like others have stated, I think it will just hurt children most of all.

Granted, this type of law is good for publicity, but that's about it. This isn't an impactful welfare reform and lawmakers need to go back to the drawing board.

[BaltoAlphaPsi]

Is it possible, that that something like this could change the way a percentage of people look at welfare and unemployment? I think so.

There are lots of types of unemployment, and lots of ways that people can get it. There are plenty of people using welfare/unemployment the way it was intended... to help for a few months getting from one job, to the next. but there are lots of people all over the place, in the city, in the suburbs, that are using it for their own greed.

This is an experience my friend had in his 5 years at K-mart in a Detroit suburb...
"what really bugged me was when I was ringing people up, the sheer number of customers who would use their food stamps to buy milk, bread, eggs and all the staple food items. But then they would buy a $300.00 fishing pole, or $500.00 worth of video games and consoles, or a $1,000 TV. but when it came to paying for the TV they'd pull a huge wad of $100.00 bills out of their coat pocket, or purse and act like it was nothing to carry around 1,000's of dollars in bills. I would see the same people all the time, and there were so many that did that..... now try to tell me they aren't doing and dealing drugs!"


I'm sorry to sound selfish ... or unsympathetic.... but why should I, a law abiding citizen... give my well earned money to someone who breaks the law with drugs time and time again?? I'm pretty broke, putting myself though college with some help from my parents. I would love to help those that need help, but they gotta be law abiding before I give a rats ass about their drug problems. My taxes aren't going toward buying their drugs, that's just bull.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by BaltoAlphaPsi

Is it possible, that that something like this could change the way a percentage of people look at welfare and unemployment? I think so.

There are lots of types of unemployment, and lots of ways that people can get it. There are plenty of people using welfare/unemployment the way it was intended... to help for a few months getting from one job, to the next. but there are lots of people all over the place, in the city, in the suburbs, that are using it for their own greed.

This is an experience my friend had in his 5 years at K-mart in a Detroit suburb...
"what really bugged me was when I was ringing people up, the sheer number of customers who would use their food stamps to buy milk, bread, eggs and all the staple food items. But then they would buy a $300.00 fishing pole, or $500.00 worth of video games and consoles, or a $1,000 TV. but when it came to paying for the TV they'd pull a huge wad of $100.00 bills out of their coat pocket, or purse and act like it was nothing to carry around 1,000's of dollars in bills. I would see the same people all the time, and there were so many that did that..... now try to tell me they aren't doing and dealing drugs!"


I'm sorry to sound selfish ... or unsympathetic.... but why should I, a law abiding citizen... give my well earned money to someone who breaks the law with drugs time and time again?? I'm pretty broke, putting myself though college with some help from my parents. I would love to help those that need help, but they gotta be law abiding before I give a rats ass about their drug problems. My taxes aren't going toward buying their drugs, that's just bull.

Let me add to that (because when I was in undergrad I worked in a shoe store so 1st of the month <Mother's Day as we called it> was always our busiest of course!) by saying these same few individuals who would drop dollars on these expensive items are the same ones living in subsidized housing with rent and bills under $100 dollars and WON'T pay them and before you know it, are getting evicted!

I mean come on if you live in a house and all you have to pay is 20 bucks for rent, how the HELL do you fall behind on that???????

If you owe 10 dollars on your Gas and Electric bill, how do you let that slide for 5 months and wonder why your lights are out?

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Let me add to that (because when I was in undergrad I worked in a shoe store so 1st of the month <Mother's Day as we called it> was always our busiest of course!) by saying these same few individuals who would drop dollars on these expensive items are the same ones living in subsidized housing with rent and bills under $100 dollars and WON'T pay them and before you know it, are getting evicted!

I mean come on if you live in a house and all you have to pay is 20 bucks for rent, how the HELL do you fall behind on that???????

If you owe 10 dollars on your Gas and Electric bill, how do you let that slide for 5 months and wonder why your lights are out?

Hmm. I am torn on this one. My babysitter recieves some government aid- mainly food stamps and heath insurance through a State of Indiana program. I have to say, she is a great mom, both to her own daughter and my sons (otherwise she would be watching them). However, I was sometimes surprised by some of her purchasing decisions.
I started mentoring her about a year ago and we actually went over some of the bigger issues- such at buying $200 shoes instead of paying the rent. I think she just needed some guidance. Someone to say "what the h*ll?" on some purchases and to help her make a budget. Now she clips coupons, buys store brands if they are comparable and cheaper, and has saved up enough for a new to her car. And she sees the results- while wearing $45 shoes!
As for the drug screens, I don't have a huge problem with it- it would keep lab staff employed- however I wonder how often they would need this. If it is a working poor, then taking off work to take a monthly drug test would be a hardship.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

Hmm. I am torn on this one. My babysitter recieves some government aid- mainly food stamps and heath insurance through a State of Indiana program. I have to say, she is a great mom, both to her own daughter and my sons (otherwise she would be watching them). However, I was sometimes surprised by some of her purchasing decisions.
I started mentoring her about a year ago and we actually went over some of the bigger issues- such at buying $200 shoes instead of paying the rent. I think she just needed some guidance. Someone to say "what the h*ll?" on some purchases and to help her make a budget. Now she clips coupons, buys store brands if they are comparable and cheaper, and has saved up enough for a new to her car. And she sees the results- while wearing $45 shoes!
As for the drug screens, I don't have a huge problem with it- it would keep lab staff employed- however I wonder how often they would need this. If it is a working poor, then taking off work to take a monthly drug test would be a hardship.

She is one of a rare few.

[nikki1920]

I had a client who was about to get evicted. She was crying and upset and carrying on. When I finally got her calmed down enough to tell me how much her back rent was, I wanted to throttle her. 2 years back rent? $24.

A lot of my clients don't know how to budget (hell, I really don't either, but I know that rent comes first), but will show up in the latest fashions, the latest phone but swear up and down that they are broke. THAT is what bothers the hell out of me.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by nikki1920

I had a client who was about to get evicted. She was crying and upset and carrying on. When I finally got her calmed down enough to tell me how much her back rent was, I wanted to throttle her. 2 years back rent? $24.

A lot of my clients don't know how to budget (hell, I really don't either, but I know that rent comes first), but will show up in the latest fashions, the latest phone but swear up and down that they are broke. THAT is what bothers the hell out of me.

24 bucks?

Dayum what i got in my pocket right now would set her up for the next 3 years....sheesh.

SHoulda made her take a urine test to ask what she was smokin' to understand why she was stressing over 25 bucks...LOL