Obama's Rhetoric is the Real Catastrophe

[AGDee]

There are a few things that really are quite obvious:
1) Nobody wants the economy to tank
2) If there were an easy solution, it would have been implemented already
3) It's such a complicated issue that nobody really knows how to fix it

I'm starting to get really pessimistic about the whole thing. I wholeheartedly believed that GM was going to survive with the first loan but I no longer believe that. I thought when they gave the banks the bailout money that it would ease up the credit crisis, but I no longer believe that. I'm starting to believe that this is simply going to happen as part of an economic cycle from our standard living and growth being way too high to continue as it was and we are all simply going to have to adjust. College kids cannot expect to make $60K in their first job out of school. Retirees cannot expect their employers to provide them health care and retirement funds to last them into their 90's when they retire at 65. We may not be able to have more computers and TVs than people in our family. We (society) has to stop living on credit and start living within our means. We can't keep pulling equity out of our houses to get more and more stuff. Corporate execs can't expect the perks that they have gotten used to. Things are bad, really bad and it's not going to change over night. We have to adjust. Nobody is willing to admit that we are all responsible for this mess. We want to blame greedy corporations or people who were stupid to buy more house than they could afford, but seriously, most of society spends a lot of time trying to "keep up with the Joneses" and we have to stop because the Joneses are going bankrupt and losing their houses.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by AGDee

There are a few things that really are quite obvious:
1) Nobody wants the economy to tank
2) If there were an easy solution, it would have been implemented already
3) It's such a complicated issue that nobody really knows how to fix it

I'm starting to get really pessimistic about the whole thing. I wholeheartedly believed that GM was going to survive with the first loan but I no longer believe that. I thought when they gave the banks the bailout money that it would ease up the credit crisis, but I no longer believe that. I'm starting to believe that this is simply going to happen as part of an economic cycle from our standard living and growth being way too high to continue as it was and we are all simply going to have to adjust. College kids cannot expect to make $60K in their first job out of school. Retirees cannot expect their employers to provide them health care and retirement funds to last them into their 90's when they retire at 65. We may not be able to have more computers and TVs than people in our family. We (society) has to stop living on credit and start living within our means. We can't keep pulling equity out of our houses to get more and more stuff. Corporate execs can't expect the perks that they have gotten used to. Things are bad, really bad and it's not going to change over night. We have to adjust. Nobody is willing to admit that we are all responsible for this mess. We want to blame greedy corporations or people who were stupid to buy more house than they could afford, but seriously, most of society spends a lot of time trying to "keep up with the Joneses" and we have to stop because the Joneses are going bankrupt and losing their houses.

Absolutely - it's a cycle that has gone on throughout history. All you have to do is look back at the 20s and the immense spending (and lack of saving) that went on before the Great Depression. The economy runs in cycles, and I firmly believe that there's not a whole lot that the government can do about it. In any economy though, bad or good, people have to be honest with themselves about what they can expect to earn, and the lifestyle they can afford.

That said...I don't think throwing money at it is the answer, and I have faith that the market (and big businesses) will self-correct at some point.

I'm not trying to come at this from some ivory tower; I have some family members who are in pretty bad shape right now.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Absolutely - it's a cycle that has gone on throughout history. All you have to do is look back at the 20s and the immense spending (and lack of saving) that went on before the Great Depression. The economy runs in cycles, and I firmly believe that there's not a whole lot that the government can do about it. In any economy though, bad or good, people have to be honest with themselves about what they can expect to earn, and the lifestyle they can afford.

That said...I don't think throwing money at it is the answer, and I have faith that the market (and big businesses) will self-correct at some point.

I'm not trying to come at this from some ivory tower; I have some family members who are in pretty bad shape right now.

At the same time, we play this blame game, even if it's a cyclical inevitability and I think that blame game hurts us more than anything. We also tend to want a quick fix for EVERYTHING (from weight loss to health care to the economy) so we keep expecting someone to come in and fix it for us when the reality is that there may not be a fix. Which party is going to win on a platform of "We can't fix it so deal with it"?

I came to some of those conclusions just tonight as my ex-husband ( a very staunch Republican) and I were debating the issue. He says "Throwing money at it isn't going to fix it" and I said "Well what will?" and he said "They should give us a tax holiday this year" meaning that nobody should have to pay any federal taxes. I inquired just where the government would get money to function if they did that and he had no answer for that either.

As much as people are reveling in lower property taxes around here, it also means fewer services. Fewer police, returning to "pay per call" firefighters (who are slower to respond resulting in more property loss and loss of life or injury), less salt on the roads, more potholes, etc. I WANT my city services to continue, even if it means that those of us who can pay more in property taxes have to do that. I don't want to be put on hold when I call 911. I don't want to slide on black ice because they can't afford more salt (they only salted intersections and curved roads this winter and it was a noticeable difference). Eliminate waste? Absolutely, because there is some everywhere. But a total tax holiday? No way! It seems that could MORE costly than the bailout plans.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by AGDee

There are a few things that really are quite obvious:
1) Nobody wants the economy to tank
2) If there were an easy solution, it would have been implemented already
3) It's such a complicated issue that nobody really knows how to fix it

I'm starting to get really pessimistic about the whole thing. I wholeheartedly believed that GM was going to survive with the first loan but I no longer believe that. I thought when they gave the banks the bailout money that it would ease up the credit crisis, but I no longer believe that. I'm starting to believe that this is simply going to happen as part of an economic cycle from our standard living and growth being way too high to continue as it was and we are all simply going to have to adjust. College kids cannot expect to make $60K in their first job out of school. Retirees cannot expect their employers to provide them health care and retirement funds to last them into their 90's when they retire at 65. We may not be able to have more computers and TVs than people in our family. We (society) has to stop living on credit and start living within our means. We can't keep pulling equity out of our houses to get more and more stuff. Corporate execs can't expect the perks that they have gotten used to. Things are bad, really bad and it's not going to change over night. We have to adjust. Nobody is willing to admit that we are all responsible for this mess. We want to blame greedy corporations or people who were stupid to buy more house than they could afford, but seriously, most of society spends a lot of time trying to "keep up with the Joneses" and we have to stop because the Joneses are going bankrupt and losing their houses.

Well said.