Mutual selection?

[OPhiAGinger]

Originally Posted by OTW

When a PNAM shops around for sororities she wants to AI, it's saying to me "I've got more than one I want to join, and I want to keep the others around just in case yours doesn't work out."

This is exactly the approach GC encourages for PNMs. So why do the most vocal posters on GC advise just the opposite for PNAMs?

And I think you missed my point about mutual selection. Denying PNAMs the right to make the first overture is essentially denying their part of the mutual selection process.

AOEForMe, thanks for your response. I agree that selecting someone who may live in your house for several years requires a different process than selecting someone to serve on committees and monthly alumnae chapter meetings. Good point.

Originally Posted by OPhiAGinger

This is exactly the approach GC encourages for PNMs. So why do the most vocal posters on GC advise just the opposite for PNAMs?

Because AI is NOTHING like collegiate recruitment. Just because there are two methods of entry into membership into an organization does not mean the attitudes and approach for one has to be applied to the other.

And I think you missed my point about mutual selection. Denying PNAMs the right to make the first overture is essentially denying their part of the mutual selection process.

No, I don't think I missed your point at all. If Abigail Alumna wants to petition Patty PNAM for membership, Patty PNAM would have to be willing to go through AI. There you go, AI mutual selection.

Collegiate chapters don't have to take in every PNM that wants to be a member very badly. Why should Alum Chapters have to take in every strong, smart professional that wants to devote time, energy, and money?

[SWTXBelle]

It's simple: collegiate chapters are designed to recruite new members. Alumnae chapters are designed to enable alumnae to continue in the group they joined after they leave college. They are NOT meant to recruit - they are meant to be a continuation from college. AI programs exist to honour women who the GLO believes have contributed to the GLO already, or who have a tie to the group (i.e. mothers, volunteers). Some NPC groups do not have an AI program at all.

[myopicsunflower]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

It's simple: collegiate chapters are designed to recruite new members. Alumnae chapters are designed to enable alumnae to continue in the group they joined after they leave college. They are NOT meant to recruit - they are meant to be a continuation from college.

Cosign with my Triad Sister on this.

Originally Posted by OPhiAGinger

I'm not suggesting that sororities must accept everyone who expresses an interest. Of course not!

But I feel bad for Patty PNAM, waiting around for Abigail Alumna to recognize what a fantastic sister she would be. This is analogous to the way well-bred young ladies in my mother's generation had to wait for men to ask them out. It was scandalous for the girls to ask a boy out back in the day. Why is it so wrong for Patty to express her interest? How will Abi know Patty is even interested otherwise? Maybe it's time for this social norm to catch up with other social norms, and encourage women to take more direct ownership of their own happiness rather than just waiting around for something to fall into their lap.

If Patty PNAM would truly be a fantastic sister, Abigail Alumna would see it without Patty calling her attention to it and, if Abigail's GLO initiates alumnae, she could bring up the subject. Abigail would know whether or not Patty was sister material for one or more of the following reasons:

A) Patty was already one of Abigail's good friends and demonstrated the traits and values that Abigail's GLO holds dear (and I add that traits and values part because just because someone is a rockin' friend doesn't necessarily mean she'd be a good sister),

B) Patty had been helping Abigail's GLO in some way and had a proven track record, or

C) Patty's daughter/stepdaughter/niece/etc was a sister of Abigail's GLO and had supported the sisterhood for some time.

Let me also add that Abigail Alumna may be best friends with Nancy Non-Greek, and Nancy might be an exceptional woman with multiple Nobel Peace Prizes, a load of Olympic Gold Medals, and a patent on the cure for cancer, but she may not be interested in alumnae initiation, even if Abigail wants to sponsor her and brings up the topic.

[KSUViolet06]

^^^Agreed.

Just because PNAMs are discouraged from contacting XYZ HQ doesn't mean that EVERYONE GETS TURNED AWAY. There are still women who get initiated into XYZ because well, members SEE how good of a fit they'd be.

If Patti PNAM is dedicated to XYZ and would make a good sister, alumnae will take notice, without her having to approach HQ.

I think OPhiAginger is making it out to seem like just because an HQ doesn't want PNAMs approaching them about AI, that a sorority accepts no one.

These orgs do see women in the comminity that would make good members and extend the invite of membership to them.

[SWTXBelle]

Just curious - which are the NPC groups that welcome interest in AI from anyone? I was under the impression that none of the 26 did, but perhaps I am mistaken. I am confident that at least 12 that I know of do NOT.

One of the beauties of the NPC is that while we all are bound by the Unanimous Agreements, individual groups are free to handle everything else as they see fit.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Just curious - which are the NPC groups that welcome interest in AI from anyone? I was under the impression that none of the 26 did, but perhaps I am mistaken. I am confident that at least 12 that I know of do NOT.

There are some who have AI info listed on their websites, but I can't say if that means they welcome interest from anyone.

Even if a sorority has a link on their webpage with AI info and contact info about it, I would consider that to be like a job posting or something, anybody can inquire about an app or something, but not everyone's going to get it.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

^^^Agreed.

It's not like just because PNAMs are discouraged from contacting XYZ HQ that EVERYONE GETS TURNED AWAY. There are still women who get initiated into XYZ because well, members SEE how good of a fit they'd be.

If Patti PNAM is dedicated to XYZ and would make a good sister, alumnae will take notice, without her having to approach HQ.

I know that if my bff had the time (and there was a need where she lived) and Alpha Gam needed help, I would send my sisters her information, but I wouldn't say OMG! I know she'd be the best potential Alpha Gam ever initiate her! If they were open to AI they'd probably suggest it on their own, but I know it wouldn't cross her mind to ask for membership. She'd do it because a) she works with students and likes to mentor b) Alpha Gam is important to me and she sees the value in it, even without membership and c) she has Type I diabetes and knows that's our international philanthropy.

I plan to be in higher ed. and I can easily see myself PMing you (KSUViolet) to send my information on to whoever the chapter advisor is in Fairbanks and offering to help them while I work on my PhD and being panhellenic because we don't have a chapter there, yet I value and support other groups. I really see AI being more frequent in rural and isolated areas due to lack of advisors than I see it in urban areas (que mad dash of women who want AI to fulfill their dreams to land grant colleges in the boonies).

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I plan to be in higher ed. and I can easily see myself PMing you (KSUViolet) to send my information on to whoever the chapter advisor is in Fairbanks and offering to help them while I work on my PhD and being panhellenic because we don't have a chapter there, yet I value and support other groups. I really see AI being more frequent in rural and isolated areas due to lack of advisors than I see it in urban areas (que mad dash of women who want AI to fulfill their dreams to land grant colleges in the boonies).

Cool. I am not certain if Sigma allows non-member advisors at this time though, but I would need to check on that. That's so nice of you to offer!

Honestly, I think that that's part of the reason that my sorority offers AI, because they want to provide chapters with qualified advisors where there are none. I personally think that's great.

However, I am not sure it exists to fulfill middle-aged women's dreams of being in sorority. If you're willing to SERVE Sigma, great. I'm all for it. But if all you can tell me is that it hsas been your "dream" to be a Sigma since undergrad, I tend to think you're a little suspect. It's not about what Sigma can do for you, but what YOU can do for Sigma.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

I would love it if my NPC group (since if I attempt to say ALL I'd have my arm bitten off) had something similar to NPHC alumni intake process. I do feel that there are people of value who may find an organization interesting. I don't think it's right to hold it against some people that they did not go through recruitment. To me that is a lame excuse.

Not everyone is cut out for that, no everyone has the opportunity. Some people couldn't afford it, some people didn't make the cut for pathetic reasons based on an 19 year old's opinion, some people had other activities that demanded far too much of their time, some people didn't have the grades, some people didn't see the value in it at the time but have seen the light and regret it, etc. Who am I to hold the past against them (with the exception of those "special" situations [ie. crazy people]).

Also, I think it would encourage alumna associations to play an even more active role in their groups.

NPHC manages to do it and does it very successfully. While I don't think every org. should be required to, I think it has the potential to really change the scope of an organization for the better. There are so many people who aren't Greek - and while they don't all have to be Greek I must admit they would make very good candidates and eventually members.

Why should they be denied simply because in the past it has "been that way"? Things/people/companies/organizations/policies, can and do change all the time. Why should teenagers and young adults be the only ones building membership in our organizations?

[OPhiAGinger]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

[COLOR="Magenta]I think OPhiAginger is making it out to seem like just because an HQ doesn't want PNAMs approaching them about AI, that a sorority accepts no one.
[/COLOR]

That's not my intention at all, and I apologize if I gave that impression.

I am raising this question because my GLO has recently started considering an AI program and I want to get a better understanding of what has worked (and not) for the groups that have a program like this. It seems like old GC threads may have provided an overly supportive viewpoint that didn't reflect reality, and more recent threads reflect an overly pessimistic attitude.

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

[COLOR="Magenta]If Patti PNAM is dedicated to XYZ and would make a good sister, alumnae will take notice, without her having to approach HQ....These orgs do see women in the comminity that would make good members and extand the invite of membership to them.[/COLOR]

So, again, the answer is to sit and wait for what you want to drop into your lap...? The people I most admire in life are the ones who make things happen. IF my GLO does develop an AI route to membership, those are the kind of people I hope are interested because those are the kind who can add the most to our organization.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by OPhiAGinger

So, again, the answer is to sit and wait for what you want to drop into your lap...? The people I most admire in life are the ones who make things happen. IF my GLO does develop an AI route to membership, those are the kind of people I hope are interested because those are the kind who can add the most to our organization.

No.

Your answer is to live your life, be involved in the community, maybe meet women who are in the sorority.

You can't make it happen.

Even if a sorority takes inquiries from PNAMs, you still can't "make it happen?" Who's to say that just because you can contact them means that your initiative is going to "make it happen?"

[OPhiAGinger]

I'm not suggesting that sororities must accept everyone who expresses an interest. Of course not!

But I feel bad for Patty PNAM, waiting around for Abigail Alumna to recognize what a fantastic sister she would be. This is analogous to the way well-bred young ladies in my mother's generation had to wait for men to ask them out. It was scandalous for the girls to ask a boy out back in the day. Why is it so wrong for Patty to express her interest? How will Abi know Patty is even interested otherwise? Maybe it's time for this social norm to catch up with other social norms, and encourage women to take more direct ownership of their own happiness rather than just waiting around for something to fall into their lap.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by OPhiAGinger

I'm not suggesting that sororities must accept everyone who expresses an interest. Of course not!

Why is it so wrong for Patty to express her interest? How will Abi know Patty is even interested otherwise? Maybe it's time for this social norm to catch up with other social norms, and encourage women to take more direct ownership of their own happiness rather than just waiting around for something to fall into their lap.

That's just how the policy in some sororities works. My thoughts:


Originally, AI was created to honor non-members who have served the sorority in some capacity (faculty advisor, housemom, etc). So I think that's why AI works the way it does now. Because it wasn't meant for everybody and their mom who was interested. Just certain "special cases." It wasn't meant to be an option for people to regularly pursue membership (like collegiate recruitment). Hence why the mutual selection thing does not apply in this case.

[SWTXBelle]

Amazingly enough, the members of each NPC group get to decide whether they want to have an AI program at all, and if so, how it will operate. I can't imagine trying to dictate to another group what they should or should not do. NPHC groups have their way of doing things, and more power to them. Some NPC groups don't have AI at all - if it works for them, good. I am a big fan of Gamma Phi's AI program. I like it the way it is, and see no reason to change.

I know of no NPC group that has an AI program with the stated aim of providing philanthropic opportunities for women. While our charitable works are important, they are not the only reason for membership, and the various AI programs are, as has been noted, considered an honour to be bestowed, not something to be pursued.