California Want to Legalize, Regulate and Tax Marijuana

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Why even make it legal?

1) It costs a crapton of money to enforce the law.

2) It costs another crapton of money to warehouse nonviolent (drugs only) offenders.

3) Keeping marijuana illegal allows organized crime to have a major source of revenue which leads to violence and in Mexico's case, government instability which leads to a lot of deaths and bad stuff which wouldn't happen if the drug was being sold legitimately.

4) It's a low cost way for many people with serious ailments to deal with those ailments without the use of expensive drugs which may have undesirable side-effects (as far as I know, and I've never used the stuff, so I don't have much frame of reference, marijuana doesn't have any undesirable side effects, bad interactions or anything which might give rise to concern).

5) Constant marijuana use isn't nearly as bad for you as continuous alcohol use.

ETA: 6) In the Netherlands, where the stuff is quasi-legal, there is just about no problem with meth and other drug use is drastically lower.

7) An extension of #6: Many terrorist groups and other international bad guys make a lot of money producing or transporting other drugs for use in the United States. Legalization of marijuana would be a huge financial blow.

Again, I've never used the stuff and I never plan to. I do, however, find the arguments for legalization to be pretty compelling. Here in Oklahoma, each year, the Tulsa World orders the statistics from the department of agriculture about the size of the state's marijuana crop. Apparently, just like every other plant, marijuana reflects certain light back into the atmosphere which the government can track and get an idea as to how much there is in any given place. The last time I heard about this story, if marijuana was to be legalized in Oklahoma, after realizing cost-savings in law enforcement and just ordinary sales taxes on in-state sales of the stuff, we could fund common education.

Does that mean legalization could be a good thing? Not necessarily. Are there some excellent arguments urging legalization? I think so.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by Kevin

1) It costs a crapton of money to enforce the law.

2) It costs another crapton of money to warehouse nonviolent (drugs only) offenders.

3) Keeping marijuana illegal allows organized crime to have a major source of revenue which leads to violence and in Mexico's case, government instability which leads to a lot of deaths and bad stuff which wouldn't happen if the drug was being sold legitimately.

4) It's a low cost way for many people with serious ailments to deal with those ailments without the use of expensive drugs which may have undesirable side-effects (as far as I know, and I've never used the stuff, so I don't have much frame of reference, marijuana doesn't have any undesirable side effects, bad interactions or anything which might give rise to concern).

5) Constant marijuana use isn't nearly as bad for you as continuous alcohol use.

Again, I've never used the stuff and I never plan to. I do, however, find the arguments for legalization to be pretty compelling. Here in Oklahoma, each year, the Tulsa World orders the statistics from the department of agriculture about the size of the state's marijuana crop. Apparently, just like every other plant, marijuana reflects certain light back into the atmosphere which the government can track and get an idea as to how much there is in any given place. The last time I heard about this story, if marijuana was to be legalized in Oklahoma, after realizing cost-savings in law enforcement and just ordinary sales taxes on in-state sales of the stuff, we could fund common education.

Does that mean legalization could be a good thing? Not necessarily. Are there some excellent arguments urging legalization? I think so.

Kevin, this is all good information, but making it legal means that someone who smokes it would be able to smoke it around other people. I've never used it either and I never will, but I know the second hand smoke can have some of the same effects it has on the actual user. I'm just a casual drinker (beer only at ball games, dinner, etc.) so I don't know the long term effects of alcohol abuse either. We already have a problem with DUI laws, so why even add to it. I like what you posted though, I guess it's kind of like how prohibition was during the 1920s, but just not on that level. I just think that if they legalize it, that it's going to cause major problems for people who don't use it. I mean I can't even stand the smell of alcohol coming through someone's pores when they've had to much to drink. I don't know how I would accept pot smoke around me, or having contact with someone who's been using it. I think it's a bad idea.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Kevin, this is all good information, but making it legal means that someone who smokes it would be able to smoke it around other people. I've never used it either and I never will, but I know the second hand smoke can have some of the same effects it has on the actual user. I'm just a casual drinker (beer only at ball games, dinner, etc.) so I don't know the long term effects of alcohol abuse either. We already have a problem with DUI laws, so why even add to it. I like what you posted though, I guess it's kind of like how prohibition was during the 1920s, but just not on that level. I just think that if they legalize it, that it's going to cause major problems for people who don't use it. I mean I can't even stand the smell of alcohol coming through someone's pores when they've had to much to drink. I don't know how I would accept pot smoke around me, or having contact with someone who's been using it. I think it's a bad idea.

It wouldn't be difficult to have a regime wherein it'd be illegal to smoke around children, in public places or in a car. I'm sure there will still be problems with idiots who abuse it, but I really don't foresee those problems being more serious than what we have with alcohol, nor do I see the repercussions to our justice system outweighing the benefits of legalization.

The only folks I think who would really have a legitimate beef are the private prison systems, criminal defense attorneys and to some degree the state's attorneys, but there's always work for a prosecutor.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Kevin, this is all good information, but making it legal means that someone who smokes it would be able to smoke it around other people.

Not necessarily. Currently in California, you can't smoke tobacco in most public places, including, I believe, the streets/sidewalks. Smoking marijuana would be included in those smoking bans, leaving people to smoke in dedicated smoking areas (I know they still have cigar clubs and the like, maybe those for marijuana) and at their house. Legalizing or decriminalizing in no way forces people who don't want to use to be around it.

I just think that if they legalize it, that it's going to cause major problems for people who don't use it. I mean I can't even stand the smell of alcohol coming through someone's pores when they've had to much to drink. I don't know how I would accept pot smoke around me, or having contact with someone who's been using it. I think it's a bad idea.

But you currently can't stop those people around you from doing something just because it makes you ill. If I want to drink until I'm stewing in it, that is my prerogative. Your rights end where mine begin.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by kstar

Not necessarily. Currently in California, you can't smoke tobacco in most public places, including, I believe, the streets/sidewalks. Smoking marijuana would be included in those smoking bans, leaving people to smoke in dedicated smoking areas (I know they still have cigar clubs and the like, maybe those for marijuana) and at their house. Legalizing or decriminalizing in no way forces people who don't want to use to be around it.



But you currently can't stop those people around you from doing something just because it makes you ill. If I want to drink until I'm stewing in it, that is my prerogative. Your rights end where mine begin.

Well, as long as they smoke it in their homes and not on the streets or sidewalks like you've mentioned.

Yes, you're right, that is your perogative, but don't effect someone elses health by doing it. While you're making it your perogative, let it effect your health and only yours, not mine.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by Kevin

1) It costs a crapton of money to enforce the law.

2) It costs another crapton of money to warehouse nonviolent (drugs only) offenders.

3) Keeping marijuana illegal allows organized crime to have a major source of revenue which leads to violence and in Mexico's case, government instability which leads to a lot of deaths and bad stuff which wouldn't happen if the drug was being sold legitimately.

4) It's a low cost way for many people with serious ailments to deal with those ailments without the use of expensive drugs which may have undesirable side-effects (as far as I know, and I've never used the stuff, so I don't have much frame of reference, marijuana doesn't have any undesirable side effects, bad interactions or anything which might give rise to concern).

5) Constant marijuana use isn't nearly as bad for you as continuous alcohol use.

ETA: 6) In the Netherlands, where the stuff is quasi-legal, there is just about no problem with meth and other drug use is drastically lower.

7) An extension of #6: Many terrorist groups and other international bad guys make a lot of money producing or transporting other drugs for use in the United States. Legalization of marijuana would be a huge financial blow.

This.

I'm tired of pot smokers and dealers taking up all the cushy spaces in our prisons because of ridiculous mandatory sentencing policies. I'd much rather save room for murderers and rapists who should be serving sentences far longer than they are right now due to space constraints, wouldn't you?

True story: in college, when I took summer school at U-DUB, we had to write a paper on a legal issue that impacts local and federal government. I chose the legalization of marijuana. Cheerfulgreek, I don't want to hurt your delicate sensibilities, but you really have to grow up. POT is not what is killing America. There is actually no statistically significant data (at least there wasn't when I wrote my paper) proving marijuana causes any long-term health problems. Alcohol, tobacco and prescription drugs cause far more damage.

California, Oregon and Washington already legalized marijuana growing and use for medical purposes. The only problems I've ever heard involving it are when the police "bust" a growing operation that they think is illegal but actually turns out to be licensed! I'm not sure why you think increased access to pot would equal increased use - that certainly is not the case for cigarettes! It reminds me of the old argument that giving kids sex ed and condoms promotes promiscuity, which we know is false.

[AGDee]

Everyone I know who wants to use marijuana uses marijuana and this has been true since high school. I honestly don't think use will increase.

[AKA_Monet]

So there was this interesting documentary in 1999 about the "drug wars" and how it was started, basically on a logic fallacy.

While there is no medical relevancy to smoking marijuana (yet), it does have pain relieving effects for people who do suffer chronic diseases who cannot take their narcotics.

Tokkeing up is not the issue here... There are laws in place for DUI, inappropriate selling, like the RICO statues, and illegal transports. Let the other states put their laws in place. And as far as smoking indoors, it can occur in gaming casinos and places that have the huge HEPA filters.

When I was visiting family in SoCal and was at one casino, I was playing this penny slot that was "paying out". Ding dong girl sat next to me and lit a cigarette. Now, while I don't mind folks smoking, doing it right next to me was rude and I was winning on my machine. Why should I leave? Fortunately, her machine took her money and she left. I was fine with that... But within 30's my throat hurt after she lit her butt.

The thing about cancer sticks is the crap that's added to them...

The worst that can happen to your weed is someone or some animal urinates on it...

And in casinos, ALL areas are the smoking section, even in the "non-smoking" section... Just like Paris, France...

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Oh. QED huh?

What's QED?

Originally Posted by Zephyrus

No offense, but your post on this issue suck. Here's why. You're pissed because you don't want to smell it and you think it effects your health, because of that you want to keep it illegal. If that's the case, then make transportation illegal too. Cars and buses effect your health too, because you breathe in the pollution daily.

Zephyrus, if that's how you feel about my posts then that's o.k. I don't take offense to that. o.k. so you smoke pot. Who cares? I couldn't care less. For all I care, do acid, smoke crack, LSD, sniff cocaine, do whatever...I don't care, it's your body. Just do it on YOUR property or in YOUR OWN home. That's all I'm saying.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

What's QED?

Zephyrus, if that's how you feel about my posts then that's o.k. I don't take offense to that. o.k. so you smoke pot. Who cares? I could care less. For all I care, do acid, smoke crack, LSD, sniff cocaine, do whatever...I don't care, it's your body. Just do it on YOUR property or in YOUR OWN home. That's all I'm saying.

CG...the only thing I would like to point out about your last statement is thateverythign else you just mentioned is either addictive or deadly (usually some fo those goes hand in hand), marijuana is not. Thus the big argument about legalizing it especially as someone so abundantly pointed out earlier with govt's slowly enacting laws for teh cessation of smoking of cigarettes.

Yes, there is a certain anger that comes out about people who smoke weed even stereotypes and to a point I feel the same way but eventually the govt is going to have the final say so on what to do about the herb....

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

CG...the only thing I would like to point out about your last statement is thateverythign else you just mentioned is either addictive or deadly (usually some fo those goes hand in hand), marijuana is not. Thus the big argument about legalizing it especially as someone so abundantly pointed out earlier with govt's slowly enacting laws for teh cessation of smoking of cigarettes.

Yes, there is a certain anger that comes out about people who smoke weed even stereotypes and to a point I feel the same way but eventually the govt is going to have the final say so on what to do about the herb....

Daemon, I see your point, but if the govt. wants to make it legal, that's fine. If people want to get high, then sobeit, just do it at home.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I could care less.

couldn't care less

Carry on, folks.

[DaemonSeid]

Some of you are a lil' too young to remember this:

Nat E. Dred

Nat E Dred 2