LOST - Season 5 - Page 4

tangelo212 · #46 01-29-2009, 01:06 PM

There is one inconsistency that bothered me when I was trying to go to sleep last night (yeah, yeah). Or maybe I'm just confused.

I forget specifically who said this (I think it was Faraday), but someone said that anything they do during time travel does not change future events, the future things will happen anyway. So, why would Locke INSIST that he speak to Richard (tell him to visit him when he's born, show him the compass, tell him he's the future leader, etc., if those things happening can't be changed anyway? This also happened with Faraday when he went back to the hatch to tell Desmond to visit his lab at Oxford and go to his mom. And Faraday insists to the blonde braids chick with the gun that they have to bury the bomb. Won't these happen anyway and they can't change future events?

I thought of one explanation, but I'm still unsatisfied. I thought that maybe they can only do things in the past according to what they know happens in the future (Locke knows Richard came to see him as a child for the special test, etc.), so to ensure that those future events occur, when they time travel they must do things to make those things happen. But that still doesn't make complete sense.

Also, what time is Desmond living in? He and Penny now have a son who looks about 3-4 years old...how much time has passed?! That confused me. So people on the island are time traveling, but maybe time is also slowed down for them? I only say this because the passage of time off the island (I'm going by Desmond and Penny's life here) is clearly faster-paced than on the island. That's a mystery too. Unless there's a simple explanation I didn't pick up on

I was also thinking about the bomb as hatch/Dharma station theory... Faraday is telling the group (1954 point in time, when they're believed to be US military), that they need to bury the bomb... But the hatch is a Dharma station, circa 1970s. So assuming this 1950s-era Others group buries it, the hatch and the disarming numbers had to be implemented when the DHARMA group gets there. I think Faraday stays on the island from 1950s, when they supposedly bury the bomb (assuming they do), through when DHARMA gets there (!!! unless he time-traveled to get there!!) (we saw him in the Orchid station in the premiere) and maybe he is the one who suggests they build a station...which brings up the question how far the history goes back between Faraday and Desmond since Desmond is the one disarming the bomb (if the hatch is indeed the bomb).

SydneyK · #47 01-29-2009, 03:40 PM

I'm not sure the hatch was this bomb - the hatch was electromagnetic, not a hydrogen bomb, right?

Since Faraday said that Jughead had to be buried in concrete, I'm wondering if that's where we get the four-toed statue. The structure was already surrounding Jughead. Instead of removing it from the structure to bury it underground, they just made a statue out of the whole thing (structure and all). Oooo, and maybe they ran out of concrete and couldn't finish the 5th toe (I kid).

Senusret I · #48 01-29-2009, 03:44 PM

^^ OMG IT'S ALL COMING TOGETHER!!!!

WE SO SMART! SERIOUSLY!

tangelo212 · #49 01-29-2009, 04:09 PM

But the leg is on the shore...not where Jughead is. But with this island, who knows.
Faraday also suggested encasing it in lead...

Second guessing the Swan/bomb idea...

SydneyK · #50 01-29-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangelo212

Faraday also suggested encasing it in lead...

You're completely right about the location. Hmm.
Oh, it was lead? Eh, well. Maybe... they encased it in lead, wheeled it down to the shore, and decided to build a statue around it. During the construction, a block of concrete fell onto the foot of one of the builders, Bill (resulting in the amputation of his pinky toe). They finished the statue with only four toes as an homage to Bill.

Senusret I · #51 01-29-2009, 04:44 PM

I personally think that Daniel is wrong and it will take all season for him to understand that.

Thetagirl218 · #52 01-29-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen

I like the theory that Ellie is Mrs. Hawking who is Daniel's mother and the fact he mentioned time travel to her in the 1950s is the reason she is studying it in present day.

Ok....Ellie/Mrs. Hawking is confusing to me....I just know her as Daniel's mom....when did she become Ellie or Mrs. Hawking...who are they? What did I miss?

I like the statue idea...forgot about that...

I think we know now that Daniel must be wrong. By his actions he was effecting the future. Locke was told by Richard when he was healing him to make sure he talked to him, so Richard must know that Locke's actions are important to keeping the future in place..... It so confusing....

I am thinking Widmore must have had something to do with the original Dharma program... Did anyone else notice that one of the paintings in his office said "Namaste"?

tangelo212 · #53 01-29-2009, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thetagirl218

Ok....Ellie/Mrs. Hawking is confusing to me....I just know her as Daniel's mom....when did she become Ellie or Mrs. Hawking...who are they? What did I miss?

Mrs. Hawking is the white-haired lady who was in an episode waaay back when Desmond went to buy Penny a ring and she wouldn't sell it to him, and then she could see the future.

She's also the one who tells Ben Linus that he has to get ALL 6 of the Oceanic 6 back to the Island...or else...

I don't know her as Daniel's mom... I thought that was someone's (very likely correct) guess/hypothetical and not confirmed?

Anywho, she clearly is involved with time-travel of some sort since she shows Desmond that she has knowledge of future events. **I'm going to go look up this episode right now**

^^Jen, you beat me to it!

tangelo212 · #54 01-30-2009, 12:14 AM

Dudes, I just went back to the episode where Mrs. Hawking first shows up, and there's so much good stuff. It's season 3, episode 8, "Flashes Before Your Eyes." Around 15:20, Desmond visits Widmore's office (and Thetagirl218, his paintings DO say "NAMASTE," but written backwards. There's also a polar bear in one of them).
Hawking appears around 25-26 minutes. It's a great scene, I recommend going back and watching (which I clearly just did).

I DO still think Faraday's correct about not being able to change future events for these reasons:

Desmond kept having visions of Charlie dying, and he repeatedly tried to save his to change the outcome of future events, but then he knew he couldn't save him b/c that was what's supposed to happen and he couldn't change it.

Also, in this episode (season 3, #8), Mrs. Hawking points out the man wearing red shoes, who then gets crushed by scaffolding, and Desmond asks her why she didn't do anything, and she replies "Because it wouldn't matter...the universe has a way of cause-correcting." This happens around 29-30 minutes.

So if she is passive and knows that future events can't be changed by acting differently in the past, I don't understand Faraday's contradicting his own theory (as corroborated by Mrs. Hawking) that whatever they do in the past cannot change future events (e.g., his insistence that the bomb be buried). If he knows that the bomb isn't going to explode (at least for 50 years it hasn't), then he can sit back relax and not worry about it. Unless he is trying to do this to appease the Others, but it seems like he truly believes that he needs to DO something about it.

ASTalumna06 · #55 01-30-2009, 01:52 AM

I'm still caught up on the numbers...

First of all, the winning lottery numbers that showed up everywhere (4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42) These numbers add up to 108... the number of minutes that would go by before Desmond had to push the button. And those who got off the island were there for 108 days. And there were 324 passengers on the plane (324/3 = 108). The crew in the Swan was supposed to rotate and have replacements every 540 days (540/5 = 108)... and I'm sure there are probably others that I've missed.

Recently, every time I hear a number on the show I pay close attention to how it plays in to the scheme of things. And I always wait for those 6 "lucky" numbers to show up again.

I'm just wondering if they're somehow going to tie everyone together.

ASTalumna06 · #56 01-30-2009, 01:55 AM

And I know I'm double posting, but...

Fun fact for the day!

Penelope Widmore's given name comes from the poem, the Odyssey. In it, the character Penelope has 108 suitors.

Senusret I · #57 01-30-2009, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I'm still caught up on the numbers...

First of all, the winning lottery numbers that showed up everywhere (4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42) These numbers add up to 108... the number of minutes that would go by before Desmond had to push the button. And those who got off the island were there for 108 days. And there were 324 passengers on the plane (324/3 = 108). The crew in the Swan was supposed to rotate and have replacements every 540 days (540/5 = 108)... and I'm sure there are probably others that I've missed.

Recently, every time I hear a number on the show I pay close attention to how it plays in to the scheme of things. And I always wait for those 6 "lucky" numbers to show up again.

I'm just wondering if they're somehow going to tie everyone together.

I'm guessing that the the survivors (who are time traveling) somehow *put* the numbers there as a message to try to alter history somehow.

ms_gwyn · #58 01-30-2009, 08:20 PM

To clear up the Penny/Desmond time period, I believe they are 3 years (present day)/Oceanic 6 time line.

IlovemyAKA · #59 02-04-2009, 10:56 PM

As for the guy they flipped over in the raft: I knew it!!

Senusret I · #60 02-04-2009, 11:02 PM

So blown.