240,000 dollars awarded to man forced to cover Arab T-shirt

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

What he said.

Right, but if you have press reporting as we do about Gaza, it's really hard to make the claim that the rest of the world is failing to act because of anything we did or didn't know.

And it's also hard to make the claim that it was the sanctioned presence of the international press that was important in any of those cases, for any reason really. What good did knowing really do when the UN peacekeepers let one side go in a slaughter people?

Assuming the international press did document "war crimes," what do you think would happen? I'm not that optimistic that shame is that powerful a motivator here AND I'd be really surprised if anything but a strongly worded UN resolution followed.

Again, it's not that I'm like "yay, war crimes," but I think that ultimately most situations are resolved by someone having the brute strength and the will to use it to prevent action by the other side. Sometimes the threat of using that strength is enough, but people have to know you mean it.

Sometimes the strength can be economic as well.

[SWTXBelle]

Ultimately, it boils down to why NOT allow the journalists in? Even if having them in serves no greater purpose, if the journalists are willing to take the risk in order to report on what is happening they should be allowed to do so.

Knowledge is always better than no knowledge, unless you are a fan of Pope. "When ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise" and all that.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Ultimately, it boils down to why NOT allow the journalists in? Even if having them in serves no greater purpose, if the journalists are willing to take the risk in order to report on what is happening they should be allowed to do so.

Knowledge is always better than no knowledge, unless you are a fan of Pope. "When ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise" and all that.

Because the international hand-wringing will distract Israel from completing its mission and perhaps create impediments to its mission?

[SWTXBelle]

I thought Israel didn't care about world opinion? And even if they did - it would "distract" them? Then they aren't very focused . . . also, why would there be hand-wringing if Israel isn't doing anything wrong?

I'm not going to go all cliche' here, but it is obvious that our opinions are not likely to change - so I don't want to beat a dead horse. Oh wait, that's a cliche' . . .drat.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

also, why would there be hand-wringing if Israel isn't doing anything wrong?

Cause Israel knows they are doing things wrong.

Like the fact it came out that the UN school did NOT have militants (and Israel knew that). Or the fact that Israel is using phosphorus as a weapon, so that the people of Gaza are having their skins peel off before they die.

It isn't that Israel is too "busy" to allow the journalists to report, it's that they don't want the journalists reporting about these things.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by epchick

Cause Israel knows they are doing things wrong.

Like the fact it came out that the UN school did NOT have militants (and Israel knew that). Or the fact that Israel is using phosphorus as a weapon, so that the people of Gaza are having their skins peel off before they die.

It isn't that Israel is too "busy" to allow the journalists to report, it's that they don't want the journalists reporting about these things.

So if journalists didn't report it, how do you know it happened?
(my point is that this is obviously not an effective way to achieve that goal if it's their goal.)

ETA: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_155157.html

They admit using phosphorus in 2006 in Lebanon and apparently it's not illegal to use as a smokescreen.

And they now claim that they were attacked from near the school:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7823204.stm
Who puts something likely to be a target of returned fire 30 meters from a school? Is that much better than it not being at the school itself?

[epchick]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

So if journalists didn't report it, how do you know it happened?
(my point is that this is obviously not an effective way to achieve that goal if it's their goal.)

ETA: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_155157.html

They admit using phosphorus in 2006 in Lebanon and apparently it's not illegal to use as a smokescreen.

And they now claim that they were attacked from near the school:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7823204.stm
Who puts something likely to be a target of returned fire 30 meters from a school? Is that much better than it not being at the school itself?

I never said journalists aren't reporting it.

Idk about using it in Lebanon, but they are currently using it in Gaza.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090112/...ite_phosphorus

It might not be illegal to use but according to the article:

Under customary laws of war, however, Israel would be expected to take all feasible precautions to minimize the impact of white phosphorus on civilians, Human Rights Watch said.

It's just a little shady to use it when Israel obviously has the upper hand, there is no need to be using things that will obviously be detrimental to civilians.

And yeah, the militants were supposedly in the vicinity of the school, but the thing is Israel KNEW before they bombed it. They knew before that the militants were actually not in the school, but they decided to bomb it anyways.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I thought Israel didn't care about world opinion? And even if they did - it would "distract" them? Then they aren't very focused . . . also, why would there be hand-wringing if Israel isn't doing anything wrong?

I'm not going to go all cliche' here, but it is obvious that our opinions are not likely to change - so I don't want to beat a dead horse. Oh wait, that's a cliche' . . .drat.

I'm with you on the horse or off the horse.

I don't think Israel cares about the bad PR of shutting the borders to journalists right now. I think they'd care somewhat more if say the US actually sent in troops to defend the Palestinians in Gaza and would find that pretty distracting, but I don't see that happening.