After Several Years: What Do You Think of the New Release Figures?

[KSUViolet06]

I don't think smaller chapters necessarily have better retention rates. Depending on how small the chapter is, every member usually holds a chair (or 2) or an office. Freshmen don't get to "sit back and observe" after initiation and sometimes are asked to take on 2 chairs or an office immediately. As a result, by senior year, that member is burned out.

I also wonder if part of the retention issue is the idea that joining freshman year = best?

I know I'm living in a crazy fantasy world here, but I wonder if things would change if it were more the norm to join maybe in sophomore year?

I say this because I joined in 2nd semester of sophomore year, and by graduation, I wasn't nearly as burned out as the girls my age in chhapters who rushed as freshmen and had been in their chapters all 4 years.

[carnation]

Arkansas went from sophomore rush to 2nd semester freshman rush to pre-freshman rush. There was just too much abuse of the system: dirty rush, you name it. I doubt they'll ever go back for many reasons plus they get more money if they have members for 4 years.

I joined as a junior and wasn't burned out at all unlike some of the others who were seniors in my sorority and others but...I don't think that retention and timing of rush have that much to do with each other. The really strong groups at the big universities I work with don't have much attrition anyway.

[KSUViolet06]

Another thing that I think affects retention: The focus in a chapter tends to be on engaging the NMs rather than the total chapter.

I think that's why so many groups are moving toward total member ed, programs, rather than having NM ed and nothing for everyone else.

[KSUViolet06]

As far as giving girls another chance, I think a 2nd round invite is chance enough.

After two rounds, if she hasn't stood out enough to a chapter, giving her a THIRD round invite does nothing for her except make her THINK she is headed for a Pref invite.

I think it is quite harsh to hang on to someone for 3/4ths of recruitment and drop them before Pref.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

As far as giving girls another chance, I think a 2nd round invite is chance enough.

After two rounds, if she hasn't stood out enough to a chapter, giving her a THIRD round invite does nothing for her except make her THINK she is headed for a Pref invite.

I think it is quite harsh to hang on to someone for 3/4ths of recruitment and drop them before Pref.

Especially since as recruitment goes on the "we really like you" vibe gets stronger. It sucks even more to be led on, so to speak.

I'm trying to remember, we had 5 chapters and 2 rounds of 5 parties, 1 round of 3 and pref'd 2. I can't remember whether after RFM the stronger chapters had to cut after the first round or the second. But I wouldn't think anyone would have gotten let go after the first round unless they walked in an yelled how much she hated XYZ or had a 1.5 GPA. But I could be wrong.

[Titchou]

You are correct, Splash, that it really isn't "mutual" selection. But it's as close as it can get without having free-for-alls. Neither method is perfect. And both end up with women having hurt feelings. But the bottom line with RFM is it corrects two things that were the main problems with the previous method: 1) groups holding on to women they knew they didn't want just to inflate numbers and 2) too many women being left with no bid. If you used the old method and allowed all women who maximized their options at pref to be placed, the bigger groups would get massive and the smaller ones would fold. This method prevents that and allows everyone who maximizes her options to get a bid. Isn't that better for all?

As far as I know, groups generally drop grade risks, those without recs (where they are required), rep problems, "no" recs, etc the first round. Then, if they need to release more women, they generally work from the bottom of the pack up. Most groups have some sort of ranking system - esp those that require recs. So, they release from there. These women would probably be released by the group at some point anyway. It's really the second round on where you make your impressions. The first round drops are perfunctory...necessitated normally by the rules of the individual organization and the numbers they can invite back. So if Suzie or whoemever doesn't masure up to standards to begin with, she isn't going to after one or two rounds of parties.

Women who meet the standards of any of the other groups will continue to be invited back...and will, if they maximize their options, get placed on most campuses....even Ole Miss and Auburn!

[ASTalumna06]

Splash, in this case, you have to choose the lesser of two "evils". Although the system isn't perfect...

I'd rather see a few PNMs who MIGHT have had a chance in a "top" chapter get bids to a different chapter (and most likely be happy with that), than have a bunch of PNMs with no bids who could have easily been running to an amazing group of sisters on bid day.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Splash, in this case, you have to choose the lesser of two "evils". Although the system isn't perfect...

I'd rather see a few PNMs who MIGHT have had a chance in a "top" chapter get bids to a different chapter (and most likely be happy with that), than have a bunch of PNMs with no bids who could have easily been running to an amazing group of sisters on bid day.

Exactly...unfortunately, she's unable to see that in the real world, we can't just worry about Suzie Q, and where her top preference might be even though she isn't the top preference of her favorite chapter. The greater interest of the entire system is more important in the long run. Even if Suzie "won" them over, she probably just skated in, and everyone wondered who she was on bid day.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Exactly...unfortunately, she's unable to see that in the real world, we can't just worry about Suzie Q, and where her top preference might be even though she isn't the top preference of her favorite chapter. The greater interest of the entire system is more important in the long run. Even if Suzie "won" them over, she probably just skated in, and everyone wondered who she was on bid day.

Well that and it's not that Suzie's going bidless, she's just not getting her OMG first choice.

[SWTXBelle]

And let's not forget - it's in every pnm's best interest to have as many CHOICES as possible - which means the more strong chapters on a campus, the better, and the more likely the largest number of pnms will find a home.

[violetpretty]

Splash is most certainly our hypothetical Suzie that got cut from a chapter she wanted after round 1 as evidenced by:

1. Knowing nothing about recruitment on the campus/chapter level
2. Her fixation on "Suzie"
and
3. The fact that her recruitment stories do not add up to a real chapter/campus.

I responded to Splash's posts explaining why her suggestions do more harm than good. I find it interesting that all she can come up with is, "but Suzie could have gotten another chance," and she doesn't even respond to what I've said to her.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Splash is most certainly our hypothetical Suzie that got cut from a chapter she wanted after round 1 as evidenced by:

1. Knowing nothing about recruitment on the campus/chapter level
2. Her fixation on "Suzie"
and
3. The fact that her recruitment stories do not add up to a real chapter/campus.

I responded to Splash's posts explaining why her suggestions do more harm than good. I find it interesting that all she can come up with is, "but Suzie could have gotten another chance," and she doesn't even respond to what I've said to her.

QFOhSnap.

I believe it though. Unless she is a new member, I don't think any actual sorority member could be this clueless about RFM.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Splash is most certainly our hypothetical Suzie that got cut from a chapter she wanted after round 1 as evidenced by:

1. Knowing nothing about recruitment on the campus/chapter level
2. Her fixation on "Suzie"
and
3. The fact that her recruitment stories do not add up to a real chapter/campus.

I responded to Splash's posts explaining why her suggestions do more harm than good. I find it interesting that all she can come up with is, "but Suzie could have gotten another chance," and she doesn't even respond to what I've said to her.

Indeed.

I have a question about invites to rounds prior to RFM being put into place. From what I understand, it was a badge of honor for chapters to have huge numbers of pnms return with each round and really big cuts at the "popular chapters" were done toward the very end. The popular chaters ended up with almost all of the "best" pnms to chose from. The other chapters had a considerably smaller pool by preference because many pnms had previously dropped them while being strung along by the popular chapters. Before RFM, were there no rules or guidelines about how many pnms you had to cut each round?

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

Indeed.

I have a question about invites to rounds prior to RFM being put into place. From what I understand, it was a badge of honor for chapters to have huge numbers of pnms return with each round and really big cuts at the "popular chapters" were done toward the very end. The popular chaters ended up with almost all of the "best" pnms to chose from. The other chapters had a considerably smaller pool by preference because many pnms had previously dropped them while being strung along by the popular chapters. Before RFM, were there no rules or guidelines about how many pnms you had to cut each round?

Not to my knowledge (and I was active pre-RFM). Every chapter had its own way of determining how many to cut/keep. You could invite back the entire list if you wanted to, or cut half of it. It was up to each chapter to determine what was best for them (regardless of what was best for the PNMs in the end).

I seem to remember that it was the goal to have close to 100% returns and full (max) parties.

Generally speaking, More Popular House would cut however many they wanted because they just kind of knew that whoever they DID invite back was going to accept and the party would be full no matter what. Some bigger houses cut a little and some a lot.

Less Popular would invite back larger portions of the list just in case some girls declined, they'd still have shot at a full party and a decent return rate.

Whether chapters were actually interested in the women in their full parties was a different story.The choice was up to the chapters.

In the beginning of RFM, I remember many chapters being up in arms about it because it told them how many to cut. Chapters were used to being able to decide that for themselves.

The problem was, the whole "everybody decide numbers for yourselves" didn't really help PNMs. The goal was "full parties" and not necessarily "full parties with PNMs we actually want." So chapters would keep a girl they only sort of liked for 3 whole rounds. This was why the heaviest cuts used to come right before Pref.

[honeychile]

What I remember is a sort of self-imposed release for the last two parties:

-Invite no one to the (second to the last) party unless you think you may invite her to Pref, then

-Invite no one to Pref who wouldn't appear somewhere on your Bid List - unless a very, very major mistake is made (like the PNM showing up nude & drunk).

The biggest problem was with those GLOs who didn't use these guidelines, and invite at least 4 times quota to Pref. Then they would always pull some aside for SIP/Suicide. There were no guidelines, so they were in their rights to do this, but to me, it left much too many PNMs hung out to dry. It was just plain rude!

So, color me very much in favor of the Release Figures!