Auto Execs Fly Corporate Jets to D.C., Tin Cups in Hand

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by epchick

I agree with both of you, I think Mulally is a good thing for Ford. It looks as though his "bad days" (my words, not his) at Boeing, when they had to cut jobs, etc gave Ford a heads up in this auto bailout.

I'm glad he's doing good at Ford, cause i still really want a Ford Edge! hahaha.

And you should! The Edge is awesome and great on gas. I'm not sure how it compares to other crossovers, but I'm really enjoying mine.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

And you should! The Edge is awesome and great on gas. I'm not sure how it compares to other crossovers, but I'm really enjoying mine.

Really? That is what i was worried about (the gas efficiency). Glad to know it is good on that, since both my parents have Fords (an f-150 & an Explorer sport) but they are both gas guzzlers.

I had originally wanted a Nissan Murano, just cause I <3 Nissan, but the Edge has been calling to me. It'll probably be a while before I get it though, cause I want the Edge fully loaded w/ Sync and the navigation stuff. lol.

[AGDee]

I really like the Edge too. If my dad weren't a GM retiree (read, I get employee discount), it would have been a tough choice between my Vue and the Edge! Both of them were catching my eye on the road over and over in my daily travels.

[Honeykiss1974]

By TOM KRISHER and KEN THOMAS, Associated Press Writers Tom Krisher And Ken Thomas, Associated Press Writers – 10 mins ago

DETROIT – Chrysler LLC on Tuesday told the U.S. government it needs even more taxpayer money to survive. General Motors is expected to do the same. Acknowledging that industry conditions are worse than expected when it made the case in December for a government bailout, Chrysler requested an additional $5 billion in government loans. It originally said it would need $3 billion more. The company had previously received $4 billion from the Treasury Department.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090217/.../autos_bailout

[PeppyGPhiB]

GM urges EU states to come to its aid

General Motorssaid on Tuesday that its European arm could run out of money by as early as next month, putting up to 300,000 jobs on the continent at risk.

Fritz Henderson, the struggling Detroit carmaker’s chief operating officer, said that GM would face a liquidity crunch “early in the second quarter” if emergency funds from European countries did not materialise.

“We would try to stay alive, but there’s no guarantee we could stay alive,” Mr Henderson told reporters on Tuesday at the Geneva motor show. “We would become insolvent at that point.”

Drawing a direct line between its pleas for government aid and possible factory closures, GM estimated that its excess capacity in Europe stood at 30 per cent, meaning it had three plants too many on the continent.

Carl-Peter Forster, GM Europe’s president, called for European countries hosting its car factories to share the “burden”.

GM has asked German states for €3.3bn worth of bailout funds in exchange for shares in what will become a semi-autonomous European arm, of which its German Opel unit is the largest component.

GM has also held talks with governments of the UK, Spain, Poland and other European countries about providing aid.

The request has been met with scepticism by some in Germany, where the government has pressed the company for more details on its plans, and assurances that none of the money would flow back to Detroit.

More at http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8fb98036-0...0779fd2ac.html

[Honeykiss1974]

Good grief, so GM wants the world to bail them out?

[AGDee]

I had really hoped the credit freeze would ease up, people would start buying cars and the auto industry would rebound. I'm less hopeful about that every day as the economy is tanking further daily. 2 million more people unemployed is going to be really scary. Hang on folks, it's not going to be a fun ride for the next few years.

[epchick]

I don't know if this has been posted somewhere else already, but apparently the White House has asked Wagoner to step down.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/gm_wagoner

General Motors Corp. Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner will step down immediately at the request of the White House, administration officials said Sunday. The news comes as President Obama prepares to unveil additional restructuring efforts designed to save the domestic auto industry.

The officials asked not to be identified because details of the restructuring plan have not yet been made public. On Monday, Obama is to announce plans to restructure GM and Chrysler LLC in exchange for additional government loans. The companies have been living on $17.4 billion in government aid and have requested $21.6 billion more

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by epchick

I don't know if this has been posted somewhere else already, but apparently the White House has asked Wagoner to step down.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/gm_wagoner

This is so troubling, in my opinion.

[PiKA2001]

Good article about what helped the declining domestic auto sales. Very much agree with the paragraph about the Jeep Compass.
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...5rLWRldHJvaXQ-

[AGDee]

While I agree about the Jeep Compass, I do not agree with the Cavalier or the minivan comments for sure. My first new car ever was an '88 Cavalier when I graduated from college. I absolutely LOVED that car. I was driving 40 miles each way to work and it was one of the best on gas then. It was the perfect entry level car. I ran it into the ground. When it finally died, I had just had a baby so I decided I had to "mom up" and go for the mini-van market. I bought a used Pontiac Transport and THAT van was awesome. I really didn't like driving a mini-van so when the air conditioning needed to be repaired on the Transport, I decided to get another Calalier.. a '99 this time. Again, I loved it. It was the newly designed one, amazing with gas mileage and a really solid little car. The biggest problem I had with it was that a viaduct jumped in front of it one very icy afternoon and things were never quite right after that. That wasn't the car's fault though. Blue book on it was $7200 and the damage estimate was $6800 so I had to get it fixed but seriously, it should've been totalled. I'm convinced the frame was bent because I had to replace the rack (of the rack and pinion steering) for three years in a row after the accident. That shouldn't have happened and I'm sure it was related to the accident somehow because the front end was so messed up.

In any case, I keep hearing the auto companies getting slammed for selling SUVs but that is what the consumer wanted at the time. The demand was sky high. Moms didn't want mini-vans anymore. Dad's liked them better than pick-ups because they could still fit things into them and still use it for the whole family too. They were, and still are, great vehicles for a lot of families. I can honestly say that I don't know a single family who doesn't have at least one SUV. Shoot, after driving baby cars (two Cavaliers and an Aveo) most of my adult life, I bought a crossover SUV (Saturn Vue) just this past December. I absolutely love having all that extra room, not having to reach into a deep trunk to get the groceries out, being able to go to Home Depot and buy a door or something big like that and have room to haul it home. There's so much more cargo space. Until gas prices went crazy last summer, people were loving their SUVs. They were building what the consumers wanted. That desire fell so sharply when gas prices skyrocketed last summer and everybody freaked out. Now that gas prices are down again, I see more trucks and SUVs on the road than anything else.

As far as Hybrids go... I seriously contemplated getting the Vue hybrid but after researching hybrids in general, I decided it was a no go. The damage to the environment with the junking of lithium ion batteries outweighs the emissions advantages. The increased cost of a hybrid outweighs the cost savings on gas. There is little cost savings or fuel savings if you drive mostly on the freeway, because you're using gas then. And when that lithium ion battery goes? You're talking about $8000-12,000 to replace it. You can buy a brand new Chevy Aveo, which gets 38 mpg highway for $13K, so why??? I think the technology on the Chevy Volt is actually a better way to go. E85 engines are also better, if they would sell the gas anywhere. GM had been doing extensive work on a hydrogen cell fueled car that holds a lot more promise in the "green" arena. Hybrids are not the "be all, end all" green cars in the long run. They also don't save you money.

I think the most difficult thing for the auto-industry is that the consumer's choices can change on a dime (like when gas prices skyrocket) and the expense and time in changing over a line that is designed to make one vehicle is astronomical because so much of it is automated now. They use less people to make cars, but the machines for each part are so specific. The more that is automated, the harder it is to switch over a plant from making SUVs to making compact cars, etc.

I talked with some people who have been at GM for 20 years and they were all really upset about Rick being asked to step down. They were swearing up and down that he had done a lot to change GM and that if he hadn't been at the helm, the company would've been in this place much, much earlier.

[ISUKappa]

Dee, I really appreciate your perspective, especially since you live so close to the situation.

[KSigkid]

Henderson is on Meet the Press this morning if anyone's interested.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

Dee, I really appreciate your perspective, especially since you live so close to the situation.

Well, keep in mind that I am biased My dad was a GM man and almost everybody in the city where I grew up worked for GM. When he had to go on disability, he was the head administrator of marketing for the parts division. Since he was always in either marketing or market research for parts (Delco, when it was still Delco), we had some interesting stuff around the house growing up. We had a massive Delco spark plug inflatable pool toy that three or four kids could sit on. We had a fly shooter, like a pop gun almost, but with a fly swatter type circle on the end so you could sit a distance away and shoot a fly on the wall that had Delco on it. Weird marketing stuff..lol.


GM raised me, I owe them my health, my dental care, my college degree, etc. I do have a fierce sense of loyalty. In fact, I admire the loyalty that our parents had to their employers and vice versa. That's lost in my generation. I don't think anybody starts with a company these days and expects to be there until they retire. And, there are few rewards for doing that. You tend to move up the ladder and make more money by changing companies. Then again, the demands put on my dad.. the crazy travel, the hours he worked, etc. greatly exacerbated his heart condition to the point that his cardiologist said "You're never going back to work again". He had his first heart attack while on a business trip to Arizona. Even after that, he would go on crazy 10 day trips to Sidney and Tokyo and back home. He traveled about 75% of the time and when he was home, he worked 60 hour weeks pretty regularly.

It's very hard, it's very depressing around here. Every day you hear about someone else who is laid off in all industries because we are so dependent on the auto industry. It's what we did in Detroit. I don't know anybody who doesn't qualify for the employee discount for one of the Big 3. And, we know it's not done yet. There's a part of me that wants it to just be over.. let's get the cuts done, let them file bankruptcy if that's inevitable at this point, let's get it over with. It's kind of like watching a cancer patient die a slow, painful death and you get to the point where you want it over so you can try to pick up the pieces somehow. And yeah, I want to know if my oil changes and car washes are still going to be free for my new Saturn!

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AGDee

It's very hard, it's very depressing around here. Every day you hear about someone else who is laid off in all industries because we are so dependent on the auto industry. It's what we did in Detroit. I don't know anybody who doesn't qualify for the employee discount for one of the Big 3. And, we know it's not done yet. There's a part of me that wants it to just be over.. let's get the cuts done, let them file bankruptcy if that's inevitable at this point, let's get it over with. It's kind of like watching a cancer patient die a slow, painful death and you get to the point where you want it over so you can try to pick up the pieces somehow. And yeah, I want to know if my oil changes and car washes are still going to be free for my new Saturn!

Thats the problem with SE Michigan, the local Gov should have tried to diversify the local economy by trying to attract new industries decades ago as opposed to just the last few years when it became painfully/FRIGHTFULLY obvious the manufacturing industry was leaving. I doubt they play them in Michigan but out here they have commercials promoting tax cuts for new high-tech/medical orgs to come to Michigan..it's too little, too late in my opinion. It's sad for Detroit, but remember the saying "don't put all your eggs in one basket"? Waaayy too complacent with relying on just one major industry, and now it's biting everyone in the ass there.