"Frat" vs. "Fraternity"

[33girl]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

See, the country thing never offended me because I don't place a lot of stock into swear words. It's not about the word; it's about what you MEAN. For example: A lot of people think that if they say, "Oh, Fudge!" it's better than saying, "Oh, F*ck!".

It's not.

It's the EXACT SAME MEANING. Therefore, it should cause the exact same amount of offense, and to me it does. The 'country' analogy, therefore, does not cause me offense because the 'c word' is simply another word for the female anatomy.

I got some really good peach fuck at the farmers' market the other week. A little Amish boy gave it to me.

(I sincerely hope this post kills this thread. If it doesn't, we should try merging it with the Mary Kay thread.)

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ufpika

MysticCat -

I read both of your posts and you bring up great points (thank you for providing links). I respect your point of view, but would like to respond to one of your comments (which I have pasted below).

Someone who is truly a "fraternity man" or "fraternity gentleman" would never use what is probably the single most derogatory word in the English language. Someone who is a "fraternity man" would honor and respect the females in their life and NOT use that word.

When gentlemen are amongst gentlemen they don't speak the same as they would in front of a lady. One difference between a class-less man and a gentleman is that a gentleman knows what language is appropriate at what time. This was said behind closed doors, and not in front of ladies.

Go back and read -- you're not responding to what I said; I only wrote one of those posts. You're responding to what kddani (as in Kappa Delta Danielle) said. Perhaps the guy you were quoting said it behind closed doors with only guys around. You said it on an internet message board with lots of females around.

Originally Posted by ufpika

One more thing (sorry to harp) you used the words "frat boy" as a negative stereotype. I and my fellow brothers hate the word frat bc of the "frat boy" label. We are not a frat, with frat boys. We are a fraternity founded on brotherhood, with brothers, not frat boys. I think the word frat offends me as much as the C-word offends you.

Again, that was kddani, not me. But you prove my point. "Frat" and "frat boy" are offensive to you because of the connotation they carry, not because of the actual, dictionary meaning of "frat." That is how it is fundamentally different from the C-word, which is, per the dictionary, an obscenity.

A little historical perspective might be helpful. The whole "it's a fraternity, not a frat" thing is relatively recent. Three or four decades ago and more, few if any fraternity brothers would have given the use of the word "frat" a second thought. National publications and songs of fraternities used to have references to the "dear old frat." It's the more recent, negative stereotype you mention that has made the word a "dirty word." It may be offensive to lots of people, but it's still not obscene. That's why the analogy doesn't work. The reason we don't call our country a *^%# is because *^%# is an obscenity. That's not the reason we don't call our fraternity a "frat."

I'm not saying you shouldn't try to get people not to use the word if it bothers you. I am saying that the analogy doesn't help you. It's much more helpful, not to mention straight-forward, to say "We're fraternity men, not frat boys." That's all.

[ufpika]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Go back and read -- you're not responding to what I said; I only wrote one of those posts. You're responding to what kddani (as in Kappa Delta Danielle) said. Perhaps the guy you were quoting said it behind closed doors with only guys around. You said it on an internet message board with lots of females around.

Again, that was kddani, not me. But you prove my point. "Frat" and "frat boy" are offensive to you because of the connotation they carry, not because of the actual, dictionary meaning of "frat." That is how it is fundamentally different from the C-word, which is, per the dictionary, an obscenity.

A little historical perspective might be helpful. The whole "it's a fraternity, not a frat" thing is relatively recent. Three or four decades ago and more, few if any fraternity brothers would have given the use of the word "frat" a second thought. National publications and songs of fraternities used to have references to the "dear old frat." It's the more recent, negative stereotype you mention that has made the word a "dirty word." It may be offensive to lots of people, but it's still not obscene. That's why the analogy doesn't work. The reason we don't call our country a *^%# is because *^%# is an obscenity. That's not the reason we don't call our fraternity a "frat."

I'm not saying you shouldn't try to get people not to use the word if it bothers you. I am saying that the analogy doesn't help you. It's much more helpful, not to mention straight-forward, to say "We're fraternity men, not frat boys." That's all.

My bad, I didn't look the names when I read them.... I was just thinking you posted both of the links.... my apologies....