Quixtar/Amway/cult businesses

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Generally speaking, the people whom it worked for are people who didn't need PPL anyway. PPL may've been a viable alternative but not their only option.

In many areas, PPL tends to target lower income and down-and-out sellers and customers. These are individuals who are desperate for SOMETHING. These are also individuals who tend to waste a lot of time and money, unless they put 100% in it because they have no other alternatives.

oh...okay

you mean desperate for something in their lives in general, or desperate for legal services?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Who would get a lawyer for a speeding ticket anyway?

Plenty of people. Depending on the extent of the speeding, the cost of hiring a lawyer to plea bargain and get a pjc (prayer for judgment continued) is worth it to avoid the cost of increased insurance premiums that would result from a conviction for speeding.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Plenty of people. Depending on the extent of the speeding, the cost of hiring a lawyer to plea bargain and get a pjc (prayer for judgment continued) is worth it to avoid the cost of increased insurance premiums that would result from a conviction for speeding.

... plus the Almighty Driver's License Points. Or losing a CDL/permit/certification. And, as the coup d'grace, if you're after the Holy Grail (charitable contribution in lieu of ticket/fine), you're best off with someone who is intimately familiar with the Court.

[SWTXBelle]

I am a member of PPL, and know someone - college-educated, r94j34ntop salesman for a Fortune 500 company - who is doing it in his retirement. I have been VERY happy with it - in fact, it turns out a friend who is a lawyer is on their "team" and has nothing but praise for the company. The identify theft division has turned about to be very effective for a friend who had her identity stolen (unlike Lifelock, which IS a scam). Summer's experience is similiar to many I know who have PPL -

What part of it do you consider a "scam"?

[epchick]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

So your time has absolutely no value?

You're unwilling to receive full dispensation for sweat equity, while the people above you take a cut for literally no reason?

MLM scams usually require little to no start-up . . . it's the lost opportunity and the crappy pay that makes them suck.

Your time has value, but how can it ruin you financially? Maybe people you all know have gone to really crappy business meetings that make it seem 100% foolproof. But the good business meetings will let you know that it isn't. They'll give you some statistics about how 'successful' you'll be (like that out of every 10 people you introduce to Quixtar only 1 will actually use it).

Again I compare it to small business. Not all small businesses succeed--not all Quixtar endeavors succeed. To me it's common sense to continue to have a stable job while you pursue Quixtar. If your friends didn't have that type of common sense, well i'm sorry. But it isn't Quixtar's fault. They don't decide how successful you'll be, you do.


ETA: and by 'you' it's a general you, it's not directed towards you KSig

[cheerfulgreek]

It's all network marketing bull designed to make people poor and the person/people who started it richer. They make it SO obvious too when they approach people trying to suck them in.

[SWTXBelle]

I like Avon products.
I have been unable to get a reliable Avon lady, either here or in TN.
I contacted Avon to see about becoming a rep simply so I could count on being able to get the products. Weeks went by, and I heard nothing.
Now it's just too late. Sheesh.
I guess I could order on-line, but I hate paying shipping.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I like Avon products.
I have been unable to get a reliable Avon lady, either here or in TN.
I contacted Avon to see about becoming a rep simply so I could count on being able to get the products. Weeks went by, and I heard nothing.
Now it's just too late. Sheesh.
I guess I could order on-line, but I hate paying shipping.

There's a lady about a block from my house who has a storefront to sell Avon (albeit with limited business hours). I've also seen it in kiosks at malls. I think they're really trying to get away from their old business model of Avon ladies, at least I get that impression.

[AGDee]

There are at least 4 women in my building who sell Avon.. of the people that I know. I'm sure there are more.

[SWTXBelle]

So how crazy is it that I can't get an Avon rep. who will deliver my order in a timely fashion, and follow up with the next catalog???

I don't usually go to the mall, but will try that.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by epchick

Your time has value, but how can it ruin you financially?

I'd guess the common pathway is that people put an amount of time/effort into the Quixtar business, and never recoup enough to cover their monthly nut, thus dipping into/exhausting savings and general liquidity. Combine this with easy equity refinancing, and there's a definite opportunity for a problem.

Sure, some of this is probably the fault of the person taking on the 'job' - but the entire premise of the MLM is that the person at the bottom of the pyramid takes it in the ass for the people at the top. These people aren't really being compensated for their work. It's not a direct-line work/reward ratio, which is basically the definition of a 'scam' and the people running it are douche bags for it.

Again - because of the structure, the people at the bottom need more than 'hard work' to succeed . . . generally, they need to recruit more and more people. This is an untenable system - the later you get into the 'chain' the worse off you'll be.

[kddani]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I'd guess the common pathway is that people put an amount of time/effort into the Quixtar business, and never recoup enough to cover their monthly nut, thus dipping into/exhausting savings and general liquidity. Combine this with easy equity refinancing, and there's a definite opportunity for a problem.

Sure, some of this is probably the fault of the person taking on the 'job' - but the entire premise of the MLM is that the person at the bottom of the pyramid takes it in the ass for the people at the top. These people aren't really being compensated for their work. It's not a direct-line work/reward ratio, which is basically the definition of a 'scam' and the people running it are douche bags for it.

Again - because of the structure, the people at the bottom need more than 'hard work' to succeed . . . generally, they need to recruit more and more people. This is an untenable system - the later you get into the 'chain' the worse off you'll be.

My friend who sold it was highly pressured to keep a stock of some of the more popular products - her focus was on the energy drinks and energy bar- type things. She spent a fortune on that stuff, and bought everything that they sold she could possibly use from them. Their products are no deal - she spent way more than she would in a normal store on those items.

And it's not just the products - she paid an enormous amount of money for various seminars to listen to higher ups. Not just locally, but taking road trips to places to hear these people speak. And there were always fees.

And she lost money in other ways- see my posts earlier in this thread where she decided to back out on a cruise with me and several other of my friends two weeks before - losing ALL that she paid for it- flight and entire cost of the cruise. Her higher ups told her that she MUST go to this "meeting" - which incidentally cost quite a bit.

That sort of pressure to alienate your friends and family who won't join your business is exactly why people think so poorly of these types of "businesses".

Companies like this prey on people who are in need of the self esteem boost, and that are natural people pleasers - they more easily fall into the guilt.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by kddani

My friend who sold it was highly pressured to keep a stock of some of the more popular products - her focus was on the energy drinks and energy bar- type things. She spent a fortune on that stuff, and bought everything that they sold she could possibly use from them. Their products are no deal - she spent way more than she would in a normal store on those items.

And it's not just the products - she paid an enormous amount of money for various seminars to listen to higher ups. Not just locally, but taking road trips to places to hear these people speak. And there were always fees.

And she lost money in other ways- see my posts earlier in this thread where she decided to back out on a cruise with me and several other of my friends two weeks before - losing ALL that she paid for it- flight and entire cost of the cruise. Her higher ups told her that she MUST go to this "meeting" - which incidentally cost quite a bit.

That sort of pressure to alienate your friends and family who won't join your business is exactly why people think so poorly of these types of "businesses".

Companies like this prey on people who are in need of the self esteem boost, and that are natural people pleasers - they more easily fall into the guilt.

Wow that sucks for your friend. I'm sorry that happened to her. It's people like your friend's "higher ups" that give the business a bad name. You don't HAVE to do any of those things. You don't have to keep stock of a product (which btw I will admit are overpriced). You don't have to go to those business meetings (although i've never paid any money to attend a meeting) or the conventions (which cost about $100).

But don't blame the entire business because of a few douchebags.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Has anyone mentioned Prepaid Legal? I stay the hell away from anyone who says they sell prepaid legal. The funniest thing is when they have business cards.

I went to high school with a dude who sells PPL and keeps sending me Facebook messages about it. I'm an attorney dating another attorney, I am quite confident I have no need for Prepaid Legal!

[SWTXBelle]

Maybe he wants you to work for them??