Wal-Mart worker dies in Black Friday stampede

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

But you're going from one extreme to the other - there's a middle point between "pinching every penny" and being able to "live a little."

I didn't grow up with a whole lot, and even though my wife and I do fairly well, we're not going to be spending a ton of money for Christmas presents this year. The problem is that people don't take a long view of things - you should look beyond the next month, and try to figure out how to make sure that things are ok over the long haul.

If you can truly afford it and buy expensive things that you and your loved ones will enjoy, then that's not a problem in my mind. But, using all of your accumulated savings to buy holiday gifts is just asking for trouble.

Precisely.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

$175 sneakers = dumb and selfish
$400 X-Box = dumb and selfish
$600 handbag = dumb and selfish

Giving the money we waste on ourselves to people who are starving to death and/or can't afford college and/or need medical attention, etc = good for the soul.

Or...

Keeping the money in your bank account for necessities or less expensive luxury items (DSW (AlphaFrog ) and TJMaxx are great) = smart

Investing the money so you can accumulate more wealth and not rely on income = smart

It's amazing that this stuff needs to be said. I guess there is a lot of irony in Black Friday.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

My family had money but we were taught early on that having money doesn't mean that the money is to be spent in excess. Happiness isn't contingent upon buying STUFF. So if there was a family change of some sort, we wouldn't blink because we didn't NEED gifts. We loved dancing and singing to Christmas records (David Frost and Billy Taylor/The Temptations Christmas...don't hate ) and hanging out around the fireplace.

Decades later, I love that my parents did that. And now my family only gives Christmas gifts for the grandkids/nieces and nephews who are 5-14 years of age. No grown folk expect Christmas gifts, but if folks give it is completely up to them. As my nieces and nephews get older, they will also be taught to enjoy themselves without being obsessed with what's under the tree. They eventually need to learn that mystical Santa isn't giving these gifts--hard working family members are and sometimes hard working family members have more important things to invest their money in.

For all the broke ass people out there, whomever you are, regardless of why you're broke and whatever broke means to YOU: Be forward thinking. And if you have children, think of what you are teaching your children about money and life (i.e. happiness is contingent upon buying STUFF and NOT buying STUFF means that you're miserable and don't understand how to enjoy life.).

My husband and I have talked about how we're going to deal with Santa Claus and commercialized Christmas. While we're not opposed to parents telling their children about Santa (because imagination is certainly important), we'll instead focus on the aspects of Christmas that are directly related to our faith. For one thing, we're going to continue some of the traditions from our own families (including the annual telling of a story my father wrote as a gift to my mother called "Gifts of the Magi" - similar name but completely different story from O. Henry's). But, we're also going to be creating traditions of our own including something - which hasn't been decided upon yet - related to Saint Nicholas of Myra. One thing I would really like to do is to have my future children select clothes and toys of their own that they'd like to give to children who are less fortunate. I've always found that giving gifts is so much more fulfilling than receiving them.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Or...

Keeping the money in your bank account for necessities or less expensive luxury items (DSW (AlphaFrog ) and TJMaxx are great) = smart

Investing the money so you can accumulate more wealth and not rely on income = smart

It's amazing that this stuff needs to be said. I guess there is a lot of irony in Black Friday.

Indeed. I'm somewhere between working class and lower middle class, but I still don't live paycheck to paycheck. My focus on giving comes out of my experience that I think I need more than I really do. I have no doubt that God will provide everything I need (while I may not always live at the same level of luxury) and that generosity goes hand in hand with accumulating wealth. Charity and tithing to the church is a large part of my worldview. I don't personally believe in wealth-building separate from giving.

When my husband and I sold some property in North Carolina, we gave 10% tithe plus offerings, which represented well over $10,000, to charity. I haven't missed the money at all. In fact, it's essentially been replaced. The same scenario keeps playing out with each decision we make. (<--My blatant encouragement to everyone to start/keep thinking about charity as a duty.)

ETA: Do people actually understand what we mean when we say "stop living paycheck to paycheck"? It seems that if that's all you know, you won't know how to do things differently. I'm sure it's a little different for everyone. For me, it's calculating expenses on an annual basis and saving the necessary amount out of each paycheck to pay for the expense when the time comes. The money that I save over time makes money for me through interest until I have to spend it. I also have pure savings that is not attached to a future expense. And I have investments and real estate that I've been blessed to inherit. I realize that is not something to be taken for granted.

[DrPhil]

Not to take away from the worker who was trampled, , but this is interesting.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

My husband and I have talked about how we're going to deal with Santa Claus and commercialized Christmas. While we're not opposed to parents telling their children about Santa (because imagination is certainly important), we'll instead focus on the aspects of Christmas that are directly related to our faith. For one thing, we're going to continue some of the traditions from our own families (including the annual telling of a story my father wrote as a gift to my mother called "Gifts of the Magi" - similar name but completely different story from O. Henry's). But, we're also going to be creating traditions of our own including something - which hasn't been decided upon yet - related to Saint Nicholas of Myra. One thing I would really like to do is to have my future children select clothes and toys of their own that they'd like to give to children who are less fortunate. I've always found that giving gifts is so much more fulfilling than receiving them.

Santa Claus stopped being cute for me around the age of 9 or 10. I think I caught my parents and older brothers removing gifts from the closet so I knew there was no Santa. Then my parents started giving us money and allowing us to shop for our own gifts--mostly clothes for school and a couple of video games. So we knew that Santa wasn't doing that. More and more the focus became less on gifts and more on spirituality and family. And we had FUN!

Anywho, it's not cute to be 13 and think there is a Santa. That goes beyond imagination. Kids need to learn that they need not be thanking Santa for anything, unless they know that Santa is the dynamic duo of God's blessings and their family's love and generosity.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I heard some stores were giving coffee and doughnuts to waiting customers. I assume this calms some people down.

Yeah, nothing like caffeine and a sugar rush to keep people calm.

I now completely and fully understand why we always started our Christmas baking on the Friday after Thanksgiving.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Not to take away from the worker who was trampled, , but this is interesting.



Santa Claus stopped being cute for me around the age of 9 or 10. I think I caught my parents and older brothers removing gifts from the closet so I knew there was no Santa. Then my parents started giving us money and allowing us to shop for our own gifts--mostly clothes for school and a couple of video games. So we knew that Santa wasn't doing that. More and more the focus became less on gifts and more on spirituality and family. And we had FUN!

Anywho, it's not cute to be 13 and think there is a Santa. That goes beyond imagination. Kids need to learn that they need not be thanking Santa for anything, unless they know that Santa is the dynamic duo of God's blessings and their family's love and generosity.

I think I was 6 or 7, around first grade age, when I realized it, although I had earlier suspicions. There's a Judy Blume book, "Fudge-A-Mania" that reveals that there is no Santa Clause. I went into the kitchen, where my parents were sitting, and announced loudly that I knew the truth. We never had big Christmases, so it didn't really shake my foundation or anything like that.

[WarEagle07]

I admit, I am one of the crazies who start shopping at midnight on Black Friday and this is why.....
Our local outlet mall opens at midnight on this day and most of the stores have amazing sales. I use this opportunity to purchase necessities mostly and a few gifts. Here is an example of what I got this year:

18/10 Oneida Stainless Steel Flatware service for 4 $7.00
(originally $60, on sale for $20, 50% for shopping at midnight, another 20% or so for spending over $50)

Oneida stoneware place settings for 4 $5

9 pc anodized aluminum cookware set $35

7 pc. bakeware set $7

Mens Slacks $8.50 originally $115
(on sale, then 50% off, then 40% off again, and then an extra percent off for shopping at midnight.)

Polo Ralph Lauren Chino's $24

Lacoste sweater $13

This is why I join the Midnight Madness crowd, however I have never waited in line for a store to open or rushed to get a particular item. I browse and find amazing deals on random items that we can use. So I am on my way to helping my college students set up their apartments at a fraction of the cost it would otherwise be.

I am deeply saddened by this event in New York and am dumbfounded that people did not stop to help the Wal Mart empolyee. My condolences go out to his family, friends and coworkers.

[KSUViolet06]

A few years ago, my stepdad and I went to Circuit City which opened at 5 AM, and had a Black Friday deal on DVD players. We got into the store, and went off to find the player. We got it, he put it into the cart, and told me to watch the cart while he went to the restroom.

While he was in the restroom, I looked at other struff, all while pulling the cart behind me. I stopped and left my hand on the cart while I pulled something off the shelf with another. While in the process of this, an elderly woman RAN UP and YANKED that cart out of my hand (causing me to fall over) and RAN toward the checkout counter yelling "Bob I found your DVD player!"

I never shopped on Black Friday again. I find that most of what I want either will still be there on Monday, or is on eBay somewhere.

[Munchkin03]

Back in my day, we used to only get one special present that we asked for specifically. Of course, there'd be other little surprises, but not this huge toy-soaked fest that a lot of people have now. My niece and nephew, for example, tend to get a LOT of stuff, but their parents aren't together anymore, and that explains the 2 Christmases they get.

I think a lot of this stuff comes down to priorities. I remember kids in school who would come to school without a proper coat, but they all got Nintendos back for Christmas of 1989.

As far as Santa goes, I really wanted to believe, but I never could. My nephew never even tried.

[SWTXBelle]

pj - we always put up our tree on Dec. 6th - St. Nicholas' Day (and talk about St. Nicholas). We use the Playmobil Advent Calendar with the nativity scene (it was from a few years back - the new one this year has a forest scene with Santa Claus). We have a Fontanine Crèche - the Wise Men are exiled to the dining room, and make their way to the manager on Jan. 6th (Epiphany). My children also know that they get oranges in their stockings to represent the bags of money (gold) that St. Nicholas of Myra threw into the drying stockings of the three impoverished women so they would have dowries. We use an advent wreath, and discuss the Christian symbolism of the holiday trappings. As to Santa Claus - when asked if he really exists, I always turned it back on them "What do you think?". Once they are old enough to say "I think it is you!" then we can discuss what Santa Claus represents, and how we follow the example of St. Nicholas and the many other saints of God when we give not only to our loved ones but to others (as soon as they can reach the kettle, my children give to the Salvation Army ringers). I hate that for the first time we can't adopt a family from the Angel Tree. Money is that tight . . . and my children will have their stockings filled with small gifts, and one each from Santa. By the time they have received one from various family and friends they will have more than enough gifts.

Back to the story - it's horrible. Beyond horrible. I'm with the previous poster - I'd have arrested everyone who didn't stop but went barreling past to get that must-have toy or geegaw.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

As far as Santa goes, I really wanted to believe, but I never could. My nephew never even tried.

I believed in Santa until first grade, when I saw my dad putting presents under the tree. He didn't try to cover it up or anything, he just made me promise not to tell any of the other kids at school.

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

While he was in the restroom, I looked at other struff, all while pulling the cart behind me. I stopped and left my hand on the cart while I pulled something off the shelf with another. While in the process of this, an elderly woman RAN UP and YANKED that cart out of my hand (causing me to fall over) and RAN toward the checkout counter yelling "Bob I found your DVD player!"

Tell me this wasn't in Cleveland or Crackron.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Benzgirl

Tell me this wasn't in Cleveland or Crackron.

I think this was Canton actually.

[WinniBug]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

This is what retailers get for encouraging the chaos that comes with 4 am openings. They WANTED this kind of craziness - it creates an illusion of demand, driving more people to "BE THERE BEFORE THE STORE OPENS!" I hope Wal-Mart and other retailers that participate in this ridiculousness get a lot of bad PR for this. Enough is enough. For the first time in many years, my mom and I are not doing our traditional "girls day in the city" lunch/shopping trip today; although we never went to the big box stores on this day, we just decided that we didn't want to deal with the craziness considering we aren't buying as much this year.

That's what I was just thinking
It's the stores' fault for having a small, limited number of items and these doorbuster sales.
If you want something in particular, you have to get there first thing or the good deals will be all gone. Stores should carry more of the high-demand items.