Auto Execs Fly Corporate Jets to D.C., Tin Cups in Hand

[Kevlar281]

No matter what happens I just hope GM does everything they can to keep the Chevy Volt project on track.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

No matter what happens I just hope GM does everything they can to keep the Chevy Volt project on track.

This is a perfect illustration of why GM is going under. The Chevy Volt, which I think is ugly and bulky and looks like a car only a man would drive, is scheduled to come out in 2011 and sell for more than $40,000. Meanwhile, Honda is gradually moving to an all-hybrid fleet, with its second generation of the Insight coming out in 2009 and retailing for LESS than the Civic Hybrid...in other words, it'll be one of Honda's cheapest cars (less than $20,000), and if it's like the previous Insight, it'll get more than 60 mpg. And it looks awesome!

GM lacks vision and is out of touch with what Americans want to buy. That is their problem, not the unions. The cheapest workers in the world won't help them if no one wants to buy their cars. And they just don't get it! They need a complete redesign of their line.

If you're the captain of the Titanic and you see the iceberg ahead, do you keep sailing straight for it, or do you try to do something different?!

[AGDee]

I love the Volt and would drive one in a heartbeat. If I never had to buy gas again, I'd be willing to pay in the mid 30's (the anticipated cost that I've read for it) to never buy gas again.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I love the Volt and would drive one in a heartbeat. If I never had to buy gas again, I'd be willing to pay in the mid 30's (the anticipated cost that I've read for it) to never buy gas again.

Well, different strokes for different folks I guess. But the battery is only supposed to last for 40 miles on a charge, so you would have to buy gas...that is, if you ever drive more than 40 miles when you're out and about, which I do practically daily. Right now it wouldn't work for me because I live in an apartment with no power outlet nearby to charge it. And it is supposed to retail for 40k, but they're trying to get it elligible for a tax credit that would bring it down to around 35k. But still, people could buy a cheaper BMW for that.

My point was that the Chevy Volt is ONE car - that won't be out for another 2-3 years - that GM is hanging its hat on. Why is it the only one, and why didn't they have the vision to come up with it years ago? Toyota and Honda have been working on their hybrids for about 15-20 years.

[AGDee]

GM has numerous hybrids on the market already and has for several years. It's not as though GM is hanging it's hat on the Volt. The Chevy Malibu hybrid was selling so fast they couldn't keep up with demand until the credit freeze hit. The Saturn Vue Hybrid is a hot seller also. They are hard to get. GM is also testing hydrogen fuel cell cars but there is nowhere for people to get the hydrogen fuel cells recharged, so that's an issue.

My commute to work is 44 miles so I'd have to use gas for maybe 10 miles a day with errands if I planned them right. That sure beats using gas for 54 miles a day. You'd be talking like a gallon or two a week! That would be so cool. The Honda electric car can currently only go 10 miles without a charge so the 40 miles is a big improvement.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by AGDee

GM has numerous hybrids on the market already and has for several years. It's not as though GM is hanging it's hat on the Volt. The Chevy Malibu hybrid was selling so fast they couldn't keep up with demand until the credit freeze hit. The Saturn Vue Hybrid is a hot seller also. They are hard to get. GM is also testing hydrogen fuel cell cars but there is nowhere for people to get the hydrogen fuel cells recharged, so that's an issue.

My commute to work is 44 miles so I'd have to use gas for maybe 10 miles a day with errands if I planned them right. That sure beats using gas for 54 miles a day. You'd be talking like a gallon or two a week! That would be so cool. The Honda electric car can currently only go 10 miles without a charge so the 40 miles is a big improvement.

Honestly, I didn't even know Honda had an electric car out.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Honestly, I didn't even know Honda had an electric car out.

It's not out, it's in development, like GMs.

And, it's possible it's the Hyundai... I get those "H" car companies confused.

ETA: Oops, it's a Toyota, the Mini-E as they're calling it now. A two seater.

[Kevlar281]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

This is a perfect illustration of why GM is going under. The Chevy Volt, which I think is ugly and bulky and looks like a car only a man would drive, is scheduled to come out in 2011 and sell for more than $40,000.

I'm sure certain aesthetics had to be sacrificed to make the Volt as energy efficient as possible. Yes $40,000 is a lot of money and for the record in will be out in 2010.

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Meanwhile, Honda is gradually moving to an all-hybrid fleet, with its second generation of the Insight coming out in 2009 and retailing for LESS than the Civic Hybrid...in other words, it'll be one of Honda's cheapest cars (less than $20,000), and if it's like the previous Insight, it'll get more than 60 mpg. And it looks awesome!

I'd take a GM over a Honda any day of the week and twice on Sunday. You do realize there are still parts of this country where buying American or at least buying something that is perceived as American means something right?

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

GM lacks vision and is out of touch with what Americans want to buy. That is their problem, not the unions. The cheapest workers in the world won't help them if no one wants to buy their cars. And they just don't get it! They need a complete redesign of their line.

I'd say out of the big three GM is the only one who "gets it" and their foresight to produce an electric car shows that.

[Tinia2]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I'm sure certain aesthetics had to be sacrificed to make the Volt as energy efficient as possible. Yes $40,000 is a lot of money and for the record in will be out in 2010.



I'd take a GM over a Honda any day of the week and twice on Sunday. You do realize there are still parts of this country where buying American or at least buying something that is perceived as American means something right?


I'd say out of the big three GM is the only one who "gets it" and their foresight to produce an electric car shows that.

I agree with most of what you have posted. However, perhaps it is Ford that "got it" the most:
Ford Scion Looks Beyond Bailout to Green Agenda
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/24/bu...l?ref=business
http://www.ajc.com/biz/content/share...f9b4a189e.html
"“One of the things that I feel very encouraged about is the president-elect and where he’d like to take this country in terms of energy, and I completely buy into his vision,” Mr. Ford said in an interview, his first since the Big Three approached Washington lawmakers about a rescue plan.
He can afford to take a longer view because Ford, unlike G.M. and Chrysler, does not need an immediate infusion of government aid to stay in business."
"The company has enough cash on hand — $18.9 billion, as well as a $10.7 billion line of credit with private lenders — that will keep it running through 2009 without cutting development of its next generation of more fuel-efficient cars.
While Ford cannot continue to burn cash indefinitely, it is also not on the verge of bankruptcy like G.M. and Chrysler. And the health of the company presents a unique opportunity for Mr. Ford, 51, who has been chairman of the company since 1999 and served five years as its chief executive."
“One of the things we need to sort out as a country is batteries,” Mr. Ford said. “We really don’t want to trade one foreign dependency, oil, for another foreign dependency, batteries.” The main producers of batteries are Asian manufacturers."
"Mr. Ford has been Detroit’s most vocal environmentalist since becoming the first family member to run Ford since his uncle, Henry Ford II.
"Even when Ford was living off profits from its big sport utility vehicles, he was pushing to take the company in a greener direction. Ford was the first automaker to bring to market a hybrid version of an S.U.V., the Ford Escape, and it is introducing a new line of Ecoboost engines next year that will cut fuel consumption by up to 20 percent."...............

As for hybrids, there is a thread somewhere in GC about them.
If you were to compare the costs (fuel, operation, maintenance) of the same vehicle, gas vs hybrid, you would find out:
That the gas model cost less up front.
And the amount of gas savings with a hybrid would break even after (well) over 80,000 miles. And that was calculated when gas was over $3.50/gal.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I should have said "how much the union workers cost" which is the issue I'm getting at. However, they do make an incredible salary for their skill level.

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I take it you've never met a Union line worker. You've never seen the blood sweat and tears they put into their job. The hours they spend away from their family to put food on the table, going to bed before their own children go to bed because they have to be up at 2 or 3am to make it in for the early shift. They deserve that money. Auto workers are the hardest workers I know. And most aren't even Union. Most are temps who are trying to get into the Union so that they don't lose their job and can get benefits that are hard to come by these days.

x

[Tinia2]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

x

^^^Many workers sweat, many workers get up at o-dark in the morning.
Not too sure what makes auto workers different than others in the comment above.

And perhaps I am wrong but I believe that most of the Big Three workers are Union members.
It is the other plants than maybe something much less than fully Unionized.
2008 VEHICLES BUILT BY UNION MEMBERS
IN THE UNITED STATES & CANADA:
http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2008/index.cfm
What is missing on the above list?
Well, this may give the answer:
http://www.pe.com/business/local/sto...0.2f6117c.html

And while locating the above, I came across the following. Which caused me to re-think a few matters.:
Autoworkers Making $70 An Hour? Not Really
New Republic: Debunking The Myth Of The Exceedingly Well Paid U.S. Autoworker
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.ht...2-56dfc3323682
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4630103.shtml

[Tinia2]

Very interesting video shot by/for Detroit News:
Ford's most advanced assembly plant operates in rural Brazil
http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189
the very last sentence is real interesting.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Tinia2

And while locating the above, I came across the following. Which caused me to re-think a few matters.:
Autoworkers Making $70 An Hour?[/URL]

Right - That's why I clarified between "making" and "costing the employer" that amount of money. Autoworkers have crazy benefits...even better that government employees.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

x

Low skilled + overtime + union backing = the salary they make. I get that.

ETA: No one "deserves" any salary. We all have a market value and some of us have artificial values assigned to us whether it's through union backing, government assigned salary grades, etc.

[UGAalum94]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...592658,00.html

This covers the problems in the Germany auto industry.

"More than 1.5 million workers in Germany depend on the automobile industry for their jobs. But that industry is now facing one of its worst crises ever. Respected giants BMW and Mercedes are particularly exposed as sales plummet."


I think the stats for October mentioned in the article were that US auto sales were down 32%, down 15% in Europe.

Will someone remind me why consumerism was such a bad thing? It seems like there could be some benefits here.