The Obama Infomercial

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ajuhdg

I've already warned that he's MUCH further left than he's admitted, and with all of this media talk, I bet he'll go and figure out all the people that voted against him and rope them out too. . . .

. . . That is so sweet of you to smuggle people out. It's probably not necessary though, when Obama's done, we won't even recognize our country! (and I don't mean that in a good way!)

You do realize how very much you sound like some of the crazies on the left when Bush (and Reagan, for that matter) was elected? The level of completely irrational hysteria that an election can bring out on either side is mind-boggling.

BTW, I don't know why you need to warn anyone about him "MUCH further left" than he has let on. Is there anybody who pays attention who doesn't know that he comes from a very liberal viewpoint? Of course, anyone who pays attention would also know that part of the reason that he has gotten endorsements (or at least respectful praise) from some of the conservatives that he has gotten is that they believe he understands that he can only succeed by governing from the center and has shown in his campaign that he surrounds himself with a good team that will not advise governing from the left.

Just say "No" to the irrational fear.

Originally Posted by ThetaPrincess24

And to address someone else...obama changes his opinions all the time like any other politician. Dont accuse just McCain.

Sure, all politicians change their positions from time to time -who doesn't? -- and sometimes those politicians change their positions just to garner votes or support. But if you're calling Obama a "phoney" because he has changed his position on same issues, then don't just accuse Obama. You have got to realize that, by that measure, McCain is a phoney as well. (I'll leave aside the argument that he might be, by that measure, the much bigger phoney.)

[ajuhdg]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

You do realize how very much you sound like some of the crazies on the left when Bush (and Reagan, for that matter) was elected? The level of completely irrational hysteria that an election can bring out on either side is mind-boggling.

BTW, I don't know why you need to warn anyone about him "MUCH further left" than he has let on. Is there anybody who pays attention who doesn't know that he comes from a very liberal viewpoint? Of course, anyone who pays attention would also know that part of the reason that he has gotten endorsements (or at least respectful praise) from some of the conservatives that he has gotten is that they believe he understands that he can only succeed by governing from the center and has shown in his campaign that he surrounds himself with a good team that will not advise governing from the left.

Just say "No" to the irrational fear.

My statement about roping us off was more of a joke.

I'm sorry you think my fear is irrational, but I take seriously the vulnerability I felt on 9/11 as I sat in my German apartment alone, while soldiers with m-16 paced thought the complex. My 'irrational' fear comes from the belief that completely pulling out of Iraq (as Obama believes is necessary) is a BAD idea that will seriously cripple our ability to be taken seriously by any other foreign power. MY decision is based on MY belief that is the most important issue.

Governing from the center? Give me a break. He has NO history of doing anything that wasn't completely biased towards his own party. You said it yourself, "he surrounds himself with a good team that will not advise" sounds a lot like Bush to me. I do pay attention, must be we're watching different stations.

While I have my fears/concerns/beliefs about an Obama presidency, I REALLY do hope that I'm wrong. I'm sure there are those that consider your fervent support for BO as crazy too.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by ajuhdg

I REALLY do hope that I'm wrong.

Don't worry, you are.

[ajuhdg]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Don't worry, you are.

Thanks for the peace of mind, when it happens you'll be the first I concede to!

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by ajuhdg

I'm sorry you think my fear is irrational, but I take seriously the vulnerability I felt on 9/11 as I sat in my German apartment alone, while soldiers with m-16 paced thought the complex. My 'irrational' fear comes from the belief that completely pulling out of Iraq (as Obama believes is necessary) is a BAD idea that will seriously cripple our ability to be taken seriously by any other foreign power. MY decision is based on MY belief that is the most important issue.

I don't mean to be a jerk, but all of this (and you're entire thing about being "WAY" further left than he lets on) is a complete appeal to authority - one of the most pernicious of all logical fallacies.

In short - what proof do you have?

Originally Posted by ajuhdg

Governing from the center? Give me a break. He has NO history of doing anything that wasn't completely biased towards his own party. You said it yourself, "he surrounds himself with a good team that will not advise" sounds a lot like Bush to me. I do pay attention, must be we're watching different stations.

There was a great story in the Boston Globe almost two years ago about Obama as editor of the Harvard Law Review, and how he kept his liberal voice to himself in favor of discourse.

Similar articles have focused on the fact that some black peers at the time thought that Obama's ascendancy would usher in a new era of a predominant black voice, and that they were disappointed by Obama instead choosing to keep with tradition and group voice (cite pending - feel free to read up, though).

In case you're unfamiliar, the Harvard Law Review has one of the most contentious histories of political in-fighting and similar of any publication of its type.

Now, this isn't the end-all/be-all of the argument, but it's at least evidence supporting one side. Have anything against it?

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I actually wouldn't mind the term "phony" if she had just pointed out areas where she thought he was being phony (I'd start with, say, backing out of public funding, or running away from a wealth-distribution model even though it's a perfectly sound conceptual base) - then we could point out all the areas where McCain has openly pandered to the Evangelical Right, maybe we even decide that hey, part of politics is shading the truth to garner votes (aka "everyone's phony so it's a moot point"), and wahlah! We have discourse!

But, alas, pipe dreams are just that - I think I'll acquire dolphin AIDS before a thread goes five consecutive posts without an ad hominem.

Minions, of course, is just hysterical. Like people voting for McCain simply because he's an old, white veteran aren't acting like "minions" in a truly classical sense . . . have you been to a McCain rally lately? It's like a zombie march. ABOOOORTION! NATIONAL SECUURRRRRITY!

I'll be at the Obama rally tomorrow in Des Moines - any interest in a trip report from (basically) a true independent? It should be interesting to see what he focuses on, since he's about 19:1 to win at this point.

This is one of the best posts I've read in a while.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ajuhdg

I'm sorry you think my fear is irrational, but I take seriously the vulnerability I felt on 9/11 as I sat in my German apartment alone, while soldiers with m-16 paced thought the complex. My 'irrational' fear comes from the belief that completely pulling out of Iraq (as Obama believes is necessary) is a BAD idea that will seriously cripple our ability to be taken seriously by any other foreign power. MY decision is based on MY belief that is the most important issue.

And (believe it or not) I repect your opinion on that. I do not share it, but I respect it. My opinion is that it our past actions in Iraq are a large part of what has already seriously crippeled our ability to be taken seriously by foreign powers. I do not believe McCain can reverse that. I do believe that Obama can.

I'm sure there are those that consider your fervent support for BO as crazy too.

Fervent? Mmmkay. ('Course, I give people all kinds of reasons to consider me crazy. )

Governing from the center? Give me a break. He has NO history of doing anything that wasn't completely biased towards his own party.

Originally Posted by KSig RC

There was a great story in the Boston Globe almost two years ago about Obama as editor of the Harvard Law Review, and how he kept his liberal voice to himself in favor of discourse.

Similar articles have focused on the fact that some black peers at the time thought that Obama's ascendancy would usher in a new era of a predominant black voice, and that they were disappointed by Obama instead choosing to keep with tradition and group voice (cite pending - feel free to read up, though).

In case you're unfamiliar, the Harvard Law Review has one of the most contentious histories of political in-fighting and similar of any publication of its type.

Now, this isn't the end-all/be-all of the argument, but it's at least evidence supporting one side. Have anything against it?

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, and that I think what some conservatives have been talking about. What I have seen shows a value of discourse and looking for common ground above advancing a liberal agenda.

Originally Posted by KSig RC

But, alas, pipe dreams are just that - I think I'll acquire dolphin AIDS before a thread goes five consecutive posts without an ad hominem.

LOL! How did I miss your post earlier. This is one of the best lines I've read on GC in ages.

I'll be at the Obama rally tomorrow in Des Moines - any interest in a trip report from (basically) a true independent?

I'd like to hear your thoughts.

BTW, my wife shook hands with him at a rally yesterday. (ajuhdg, if that equals "fervent" . . . ah well, so be it. )

[VAgirl18]

Now I'm heading to go get tickets to the McCain/Palin Election Night Party. At least I can go enjoy the free food and drinks, right?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by VAgirl18

At least I can go enjoy the free food and drinks, right?

It's my policy never to pass up the free food and drinks.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by summer_gphib

I think there are many "undecided voters" remaining. My husband and I have already voted, and we're still not sure we voted the right way. There are things we truly admire about both men, making it a very difficult decision for us (and I'm usually a stright party voter). There are pros and cons to both-- we admire and like McCain but detest Palin. We really think Joe Biden has a lot of experience, but we're not sure Obama can keep his promises, and has the experience needed.

So for us it was rough. We did break from our normal party and voted for McCain-- despite Palin, certainly not because of her.

I have to say that I totally agree with you summer! I was an "undecided voter" up until I walked up to the voting booth, and I still feel uneasy about the decision I made. The bolded part was exactly what I was thinking about when I went into the polling location.

I thought I was going to vote for McCain (and deviate from my 'party') but I just can't stomach the idea of Palin as VP.

[AGDee]

I've said this before, but I think it's worth repeating. No elected official will ever have every goal of theirs realized because we do not have a dictatorship. If you think that every plan that either candidate has put out there as their ideal would actually happen, then you are setting yourself up for disappointment. You would hope that they aim big but accept that it will take baby steps in a different direction to get there.

Additionally, consider temperament. There are numerous articles out there comparing the two temperaments. If you want someone who is strongly reactive, go with McCain. If you want someone who sits back, looks at the big picture, stays cool and then makes a decision, go with Obama. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. What are you most comfortable with?

Lastly, look at who they will surround themselves with for their cabinet. Obama has been consulting with Warren Buffet on economy issues. It's clear that Powell will be some sort of adviser, if not a cabinet member, he said that he would always be willing to discuss things with Obama. I think he has shown good judgment in who he would turn to for expert guidance. No President is without this type of guidance. We've had numerous Presidents in recent times who were governors. I'm not sure how a governor is more equipped than someone who has taught Constitutional Law and served in both the state and federal senate.

I've said before that my primary concern with Obama is how all this stuff is going to be funded. I'm trusting that our checks and balances system is going to work. I don't think anybody could increase the national debt at the rate that it has increased during the current administration. I cannot imagine voting for someone who is not in sync with my basic belief systems which is why I'm voting for Obama.

I think we're kind of in a win-win situation with this election. Either way, it has to better than what we've got now.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

If Bush can interrupt TV for free and ramble on for about an hr. over some BS then this isn't scary.

I agree. And yes, BS (BuShit) it is.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I've said this before, but I think it's worth repeating. No elected official will ever have every goal of theirs realized because we do not have a dictatorship. If you think that every plan that either candidate has put out there as their ideal would actually happen, then you are setting yourself up for disappointment. You would hope that they aim big but accept that it will take baby steps in a different direction to get there.

Additionally, consider temperament. There are numerous articles out there comparing the two temperaments. If you want someone who is strongly reactive, go with McCain. If you want someone who sits back, looks at the big picture, stays cool and then makes a decision, go with Obama. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. What are you most comfortable with?

Lastly, look at who they will surround themselves with for their cabinet. Obama has been consulting with Warren Buffet on economy issues. It's clear that Powell will be some sort of adviser, if not a cabinet member, he said that he would always be willing to discuss things with Obama. I think he has shown good judgment in who he would turn to for expert guidance. No President is without this type of guidance. We've had numerous Presidents in recent times who were governors. I'm not sure how a governor is more equipped than someone who has taught Constitutional Law and served in both the state and federal senate.

I've said before that my primary concern with Obama is how all this stuff is going to be funded. I'm trusting that our checks and balances system is going to work. I don't think anybody could increase the national debt at the rate that it has increased during the current administration. I cannot imagine voting for someone who is not in sync with my basic belief systems which is why I'm voting for Obama.

I think we're kind of in a win-win situation with this election. Either way, it has to better than what we've got now.

You've been a lot more neutral and respectful of the other candidate than other people on this board...but you realize this still comes out as a plug for Obama, right?

[AGDee]

It was supposed to be reassuring to epchick who was questioning her decision. And yes, I am definitely plugging Obama. But, I don't think we can do worse than what we have right now either

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by AGDee

It was supposed to be reassuring to epchick who was questioning her decision. And yes, I am definitely plugging Obama. But, I don't think we can do worse than what we have right now either

True...although I think we have a difference in opinion as to who would be the better improvement, so to speak...

I can't believe election day is so close - it seems like this election has gone on FOREVER.