2008 Bylaw & Ritual Amendments and Resolutions

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

Kinda disagree. A chapter-specific AA should be allowed to submit nominations to the chapter to have the actives award them a Chapter DSK. An area-based should be allowed to submit to section/region for one of those DSK's. I don't see much of a need for this award. Also, the National Alumni DSK is the only other one not picked by a committee of students and I don't like having another award that is not decided upon by the students. If they're that worthy of a DSK, you should be able to make a case to one of those units.

As the leader of a chapter-specific alumni association, we are very careful to allow the chapter to make its own decisions without interference. There has only been one time that an alum was given a chapter DSK, and although it was warranted, there are others who (we feel) deserve a DSK for service to the alumni association and promoting ideals of life-long service to the fraternity through an association.

And no, we don't want a made-up local award, we want a DSK. :-) (I did not write the legislation, but I think it's a good idea.)

Speaking to geographic alumni associations, it's the same principle. The work that a brother performs in such an organization should be judged by fellow members of the association. I think there are differences between the type of service that warrants a sectional DSK and the service that warrants an alumni association DSK.

In a nutshell, AAs are the only unit in APO that cannot bestow a DSK and I think this legislation makes it equitable for all parties without asking a chapter, section, or region to change its criteria or judge people they don't know.

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

As the leader of a chapter-specific alumni association, we are very careful to allow the chapter to make its own decisions without interference. There has only been one time that an alum was given a chapter DSK, and although it was warranted, there are others who (we feel) deserve a DSK for service to the alumni association and promoting ideals of life-long service to the fraternity through an association.

And no, we don't want a made-up local award, we want a DSK. :-) (I did not write the legislation, but I think it's a good idea.)

Speaking to geographic alumni associations, it's the same principle. The work that a brother performs in such an organization should be judged by fellow members of the association. I think there are differences between the type of service that warrants a sectional DSK and the service that warrants an alumni association DSK.

In a nutshell, AAs are the only unit in APO that cannot bestow a DSK and I think this legislation makes it equitable for all parties without asking a chapter, section, or region to change its criteria or judge people they don't know.

Fair enough, but from my perspective I just don't see it as all that necessary. We don't have many active alumni associations in this area and the ones that we do have are made up of mostly volunteer alumni staff, so their alumni association work is intertwined with their section volunteer duties, hence my perspective.

Giving such a person a Chapter-DSK is not appropriate. They are not giving service to the Chapter. Giving such a person a Region or Section-DSK is ALSO not appropriate, as Region and Section DSKs are for service to the WHOLE Region or Section, not for service within a AA.

I don't really agree with this sentiment, since I see chapter AA's as having a duty to give back to the chapter, and geographic AA's as being units that help keep APO in the hearts and minds of alumni regardless of where they're from, and in turn having a duty to help the fraternity continue to prosper in that area. But that's a difference of opinion and just comes from having a different APO experience, and I'm not really willing to pursue this as a thread of conversation. It is what it is. But hey, if the AA's that actually do something are able to convince the students to go forth with this, then so be it. I don't really disagree enough to actually argue against it beyond what I've already stated.

[naraht]

Two comments on Geographic AA's contributions in terms of getting DSKs from APO geographic units...

First, we have (or have had) an Alpha Phi Omega Alumni Association in Western Europe, no geographic area other than the AA to give a DSK.

Second if you have two metropolitan area AAs where one crosses a sectional boundary and one does not, what DSK the alumnus gives shouldn't depend on which of those two AA situations is true. (Metropolitan areas in one section include places like San Fran and Miami, Metropolitan areas that are split including Washington DC and Kansas City)

[emb021]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

I don't really agree with this sentiment, since I see chapter AA's as having a duty to give back to the chapter, and geographic AA's as being units that help keep APO in the hearts and minds of alumni regardless of where they're from, and in turn having a duty to help the fraternity continue to prosper in that area. But that's a difference of opinion and just comes from having a different APO experience, and I'm not really willing to pursue this as a thread of conversation. It is what it is. But hey, if the AA's that actually do something are able to convince the students to go forth with this, then so be it. I don't really disagree enough to actually argue against it beyond what I've already stated.

Sorry, but I think those are some very limiting views of AAs.

AFAIK, there is nothing about a 'duty' of a chapter AA to give back or support a chapter, tho you would hope they would.

Nor should there be an expectation of geographic AA to help the Fraternity as their primary purpose.


The purpose of ANY AA is to bring our alumni together in a group and keep them involved in our principles. While certainly you would like AAs to help out chapters (either their own or locals), it should be a requirement or the like. While certainly you would like to see AAs as a resource for finding alumni volunteers, sponsors, chapter advisors, etc, its a mistake to assume everyone involved wants to do that. And you may very well scare off potential AA members with that kind of view.

As AAs can have separate activities and work from Chapters (and Sections/regions), its understandable that they would want to be able to recognize their members for their outstanding work TO and WITH the AA. Hence the reason I originally proposed the award. Unless that alumni is doing something specifically with a chapter (working as a sponsor, advisor, etc), they really aren't eligable for a Chapter-DSK. Unless that alumni is doing work as an alumni volunteer at the section/regional level, they really aren't eligbale per say for a section/regional-DSK.

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by emb021

Sorry, but I think those are some very limiting views of AAs.

AFAIK, there is nothing about a 'duty' of a chapter AA to give back or support a chapter, tho you would hope they would.

Nor should there be an expectation of geographic AA to help the Fraternity as their primary purpose.


The purpose of ANY AA is to bring our alumni together in a group and keep them involved in our principles. While certainly you would like AAs to help out chapters (either their own or locals), it should be a requirement or the like. While certainly you would like to see AAs as a resource for finding alumni volunteers, sponsors, chapter advisors, etc, its a mistake to assume everyone involved wants to do that. And you may very well scare off potential AA members with that kind of view.

As AAs can have separate activities and work from Chapters (and Sections/regions), its understandable that they would want to be able to recognize their members for their outstanding work TO and WITH the AA. Hence the reason I originally proposed the award. Unless that alumni is doing something specifically with a chapter (working as a sponsor, advisor, etc), they really aren't eligable for a Chapter-DSK. Unless that alumni is doing work as an alumni volunteer at the section/regional level, they really aren't eligbale per say for a section/regional-DSK.

I said that this has been my experience with AA's, and how they function around here for the most part. You can call it limiting if you want, but obviously YMMV here, so it is what it is. I'm not going to go into more detail because that's not what this thread is about.

Our alumni aren't all that interested in joining AA's and honestly I haven't seen much of a concerted effort from the national fraternity to make active steps to change this. I'm not inclined to change my mind until I see some real effort and guidance come from above to effect real change. I know change can come from the grassroots, but I'm seeing less interest there than I am from above. Again, YMMV, but I'm not really wanting to turn this thread into this subject.

[emb021]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

Our alumni aren't all that interested in joining AA's and honestly I haven't seen much of a concerted effort from the national fraternity to make active steps to change this. I'm not inclined to change my mind until I see some real effort and guidance come from above to effect real change. I know change can come from the grassroots, but I'm seeing less interest there than I am from above.

Having working to establish and try to keep existing an AA, I don't disagree with what you're saying here.

There are problems with getting AA going. Quite frankly, I don't see much effort from the national fraternity on fixing that. Personally, I blame some (some mind you) of this on our active chapters, who too often put into the minds of their members that "APO" is 'their chapter', so they never think about the fact they are part of a national organization and should consider being involved with that national organization in someway after college (whether its in a AA, an alumni volunteer of some kind, etc).

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by emb021

Having working to establish and try to keep existing an AA, I don't disagree with what you're saying here.

There are problems with getting AA going. Quite frankly, I don't see much effort from the national fraternity on fixing that. Personally, I blame some (some mind you) of this on our active chapters, who too often put into the minds of their members that "APO" is 'their chapter', so they never think about the fact they are part of a national organization and should consider being involved with that national organization in someway after college (whether its in a AA, an alumni volunteer of some kind, etc).

I wish I could respond to this without reprisal LOL

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I wish I could respond to this without reprisal LOL

Just get the Mu Alpha Alumni Association to get its members to show up for an Alpha Zeta Sigma night (or whatever letters UDC gets) and you'll have succeeded.

Wonder how many of the members of the MAAA know what their closest active APO chapter is.

Randy