Quote:
Originally posted by imsohappythatiama
Although I wholeheartedly agree that the "alcohol issue" may well be the bell that tolls for the death of the greek system one day, I think that instituting a policy to expel members who break the law by drinking under the age of 21 would quickly prove to be a legal nightmare.
Under-age drinking is (in all states) a misdemeanor. So are most traffic violations. If an organization expells one member for drinking under age because he/she broke a state law, then why not expell all members who have recieved speeding tickets? I could go on and on.
Expelling members who drink underage, while a noble idea, will not work from a legal or a social standpoint. And asking members to snitch on other members (for any cause)for rewards will break down many of the very fibers that most GLOs attempt to build.
Although the idea of restricting membership to people 21 and older has merit, it is impractical from the standpoint that most students who are GLO types graduate college between the ages of 21 and 25. I graduated at 22, so that would have given me only 1 year as a Kappa...and would have given Kappa only 1 year of my money...not feasible.
It comes down to this, fraternity members: LOOK AT THE EXAMPLE OF SORORITIES. At Indiana U., where I was an active, and at Iowa where I was an advisor, the sororities' chapter houses were DRY. Period. There were no keggers, no room parties. When sorority girls drank, 95% of the time it was at a bar, at a third party vendor event, or at a fraternity house party.
Fraternities, if your underage members want to drink themselves silly at a venue that you have not sponsored and at a site you do not own, that is their prerogative. If they do it on your property or at one of your functions, they should be reprimanded severely and/or expelled.
If the sororities can do it (and they have), I don't understand why you can't see your way clear of following the very clear example.
(And I don't mean to be a pest, but most sororities pay double the insurance premiums they should have to pay--not because the majority of lawsuits and insurance settlements have been caused by sororities, but because they have been incurred by fraternities). We carry your burden, too, and so we have as much stake in trying to help fraternities out of their mess.
I in no way mean to make this a girls vs. boys issue, but I frankly have had it up to here with fraternities being measured by one standard and sororities being measured by another.
Thanks for starting this thread; I think we're getting at some crucial topics that are systemic to the entire Greek System.
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Imsohappy,
Good thougts here. Lemme see if I can give you the flip side.
We are NOT talking about (if you read my earlier posts) asking chapter members to "snitch" on one another. If they drink at a bar, the liklihood that we will suffer a legal loss is small (unless we're hosting an event at that bar).
We ARE talking about when we have a chapter whose members are caught violating our policies, expelling members who are responsible for the violations. This may not be a first step, but certainly for repeat offenders.
Currently, chapters that have alcohol violations, with no previous history of offenses, are often led down the educational path, with various forms of discipline as well. Our history with that is not impressive.
The speeding ticket thing really doesn't hold water for one reason, we don't have a policy against speeding AND we/our insurers have not experienced any losses associated with one of our members speeding.
The DRY thing: We DO have expoerience with dry housing. We have numerous chapters that have been forced to go dry by host institutions. We have also experienced violations of policy AND major losses at some of those same campuses. It works for the women at wet campuses because the fraternity chapters are still stupid enough to assume the vast majority of the host liability by having wet mixers and parties at our houses. Of course, despite their policies against such, the ladies are happy to oblige us.
<<Fraternities, if your underage members want to drink themselves silly at a venue that you have not sponsored and at a site you do not own, that is their prerogative. If they do it on your property or at one of your functions, they should be reprimanded severely and/or expelled.>>
That's about as close to where we're headed as anyone has gotten. I might take issue (as I'm sure many of the sorority members would) with the "prerogative" thing. Would you say the same thing about cocaine? Many groups monitor and hold members accountable for their actions off-site. We should be no different.....but I digress.
<<(And I don't mean to be a pest, but most sororities pay double the insurance premiums they should have to pay--not because the majority of lawsuits and insurance settlements have been caused by sororities, but because they have been incurred by fraternities). We carry your burden, too, and so we have as much stake in trying to help fraternities out of their mess.>>
And we carry your burden, and have for years. Until the passage of the NPC groups rules re: prohibition of sorority participation in alcohol related social functions, I couldn't say this. But the women ASK us to help them circumvent their own policies! When juries get instructed on how a sorority chapter works with a fraternity chapter to pad the guest list, arrange for alcohol to be brought for the ladies, TRUST ME, the sororities will start getting sued too!I would suggest that we pay more of your freight than you pay ours.
It's not a guys vs. girls thing, though. We are all guilty of violating policies and the oaths we took to uphold those same policies. In the end, without dramatic change, we will all suffer the same fate.
I appreciate everyone's input - but would appreciate more, instead of bashing my ideas, give some of your own. And be specific!
Brad
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