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  #1  
Old 09-18-2008, 04:57 PM
WarEagle07 WarEagle07 is offline
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This post is really, really bothering me and I am not exactly sure how to articulate this well so I hope this makes sense. My own opinion is that national reputations do not matter when it comes to a chapters campus status. What matters most is what the campus perception of that sorority is. So lets turn the table on what you just said about Pi Phi (who are really strong at Auburn by the way). Because a sorority has a great national reputation (I assume you mean well known) should that mean that girls at every campus should be eager to get in? It doesn't work that way. Every national has weak chapters, some would be considered bottom tier, somewhere in the nation. So before you judge the Pi Phi's, just know that on some campus somewhere your org. is bottom tier and struggling with membership and reputation.
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:07 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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I don't think she ever said that wasn't true (that national reps have nothing to do w/ campus status) and I don't think she was "judging" the Pi Phis. And I don't think she said every Tri Delt chapter is awesome everywhere.

What I think she meant is....put it this way, if you described my chapter to someone at Truman State, or Truman State's ASA chapter to someone at my school, they would look at you, head askance, and say, "You ARE talking about Alpha Sigma Alpha...the ones in red and white...right?"

It's not a matter of "better" or "worse", just DIFFERENT.

Face it, if there was such a thing as "best sorority nationally" there would be a sorority with NO closed chapters. That sorority doesn't exist.
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  #3  
Old 09-18-2008, 08:37 PM
TriDeltaSallie TriDeltaSallie is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
I don't think she ever said that wasn't true (that national reps have nothing to do w/ campus status) and I don't think she was "judging" the Pi Phis. And I don't think she said every Tri Delt chapter is awesome everywhere.

Face it, if there was such a thing as "best sorority nationally" there would be a sorority with NO closed chapters. That sorority doesn't exist.
Yes. And it would be totally inappropriate for me to judge another chapter or sorority when my own chapter has closed (which I discussed at length in another thread I started a long time ago). And I mentioned in this discussion that it was not a "top house" on campus so I'm hardly looking down my nose at others from my own perceived elite status.

My point was that when reading these rush stories about how some women (and in some cases, their mothers) are dead set on getting into a particular sorority on a particular campus, it varies so much from campus to campus as to which sorority is "the one" that the women are gunning for. Reading those sorority descriptions from that Texas magazine was just really fascinating for a Yankee with no southern sorority experience.

The same thing could be said about sororities with which I have no experience. There are a number of NPC sororities with which I don't think I've ever had any interaction. They weren't at my own campus and I've never met anyone from them in real life. So those too are groups that wouldn't automatically come to mind. I'm much more apt to think of the chapters on my own campus.

So, to go back to my original point... The way we think about things is greatly influenced by our collegiate experience, our alumna experience and our geography.
  #4  
Old 09-18-2008, 10:26 PM
EE-BO EE-BO is offline
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Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie View Post
My point was that when reading these rush stories about how some women (and in some cases, their mothers) are dead set on getting into a particular sorority on a particular campus, it varies so much from campus to campus as to which sorority is "the one" that the women are gunning for. Reading those sorority descriptions from that Texas magazine was just really fascinating for a Yankee with no southern sorority experience.

So, to go back to my original point... The way we think about things is greatly influenced by our collegiate experience, our alumna experience and our geography.
The whole trouble with tiers is that often people take them to reflect on an organization as a whole- and react accordingly.

Any given chapter's reptuation will, I believe, be far more reflective of that specific campus and active members than of the GLO nationally.

The tiers discussion comes up most with large southern public universities for two reasons,

1. At those schools you have a high concentration of people who come from that state, and so it is natural that the regional social "pecking order" will flow into the university's social life.

2. In the South moreso than in other regions- being Greek has, for many people, very important social meaning. In practice, people who let it have a major impact on who they interact with for life have a problem- but the fact remains it is important that you "were there."

I have attended many weddings where ladies were introduced to me with, "This is _____, she was a __fill in the GLO__ at ___ fill in the school." This comes first- even before you find out in conversation that the lady in question is a highly successful neurosurgeon (yes I am laughing thinking about a specific introduction a few years ago as I write this.)

The point is, that affiliation says a great deal about a person right away. It does not tell you if they are a good person. It does not tell you if they are successful in life. It does not tell you that they are better than anyone else. But it does give you quite a bit of background in one simple sentence.

Naturally this is a strange concept to most people. I think country clubs are foreign concepts too for most people- or at least when discussing the many people who join country clubs and don't ever play golf.

Being a part of any GLO a person likes is a valuable experience. And this is why the tiers discussion gets so problematic on a site like GC. Tiers do matter, but only in the very specific context of the college in question- and even then so much depends on whether a person just naturally ended up in a top tier chapter and made a great life experience of it, or clings to it as a crutch for low self esteem or a lack of success for the rest of their lives.

Now than I am nearly 10 years out of school I have seen many high school and college classmates who were "top tier" fall flat on their faces in the real world. And many who were not so sociable in college have done well.

Sure, most people who went to 1st or 2nd tier GLOs have been successful because they were born to successful parents and were raised to be productive citizens. And this is reflected in chapter stats. Non-Greeks at UT do not like the Greeks, but the GPAs of the top tier chapters- fraternity and sorority- are incredibly high. These are talented and motivated people.

But that said, top tier is not a predictor of anything- nor does it confer some magical social status. A person's success and social status comes from far earlier influences (i.e. their ancestry) and- more importantly- what they do with their own lives after college.

In short- I am agreeing with you and taking 2 pages to do it in detail
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  #5  
Old 09-18-2008, 11:39 PM
TriDeltaSallie TriDeltaSallie is offline
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Originally Posted by EE-BO View Post
The whole trouble with tiers is that often people take them to reflect on an organization as a whole- and react accordingly.

Any given chapter's reptuation will, I believe, be far more reflective of that specific campus and active members than of the GLO nationally.

But that said, top tier is not a predictor of anything- nor does it confer some magical social status. A person's success and social status comes from far earlier influences (i.e. their ancestry) and- more importantly- what they do with their own lives after college.

In short- I am agreeing with you and taking 2 pages to do it in detail
Thank you!

There were three very clear (and at times somewhat hostile) tiers at my school - to the point where women from different tiers would cross the road so they didn't have to pass by each other. But it is interesting because even though my own chapter would have been considered bottom tier, we had many wonderful women in our chapter who were not in any way hindered by being in a "lesser" chapter. In fact, I think it was a distinct advantage in some ways.

My second year in the house we had the Greek Pledge of the Year.
My third year in the house we had the Panhel President and a sister on Homecoming Court.
My fourth year in the house we had a finalist for Greek Woman of the Year and one of the University Outstanding Seniors.
We had Greek Week Co-Chairs I believe every year I was there and usually more than one each year.

Bottom tier does not mean inferior members. It just often means women who found what they were looking for somewhere else.

So if someone wants to look down on me because I was a low tier sorority member, that's their prerogative. However, I was the woman who was the finalist for Greek Woman of the Year and one of the University Outstanding Seniors. And I honestly don't think I would have personally won those honors if I had been in a top tier house. I had far more opportunities in a bottom tier chapter that was perfectly suited for me.

All that being said... and I realize I'm going way out on a limb here... If someone offered a million dollars to guess the top 6 groups on a campus, how many people would randomly pick 6 of the 26 groups? No one would. Every one of us would draw on our experiences and knowledge of the groups, the region the school was in, the strength of different groups by state and/or region, etc. to try to guess it accurately. Those who have a lot more knowledge about all 26 of the groups would have a distinct advantage in trying to guess as opposed to those of us who may only be marginally familiar with 8 or 15 or 20 of them or only have limited regional experience. I don't think that having ideas about different groups and their perceived strength both locally and nationally makes someone un-Panhellenic.

Now running for cover...
  #6  
Old 09-18-2008, 08:43 PM
Denise_DPhiE Denise_DPhiE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Face it, if there was such a thing as "best sorority nationally" there would be a sorority with NO closed chapters. That sorority doesn't exist.
Amen, NPC sista!
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  #7  
Old 09-18-2008, 09:20 PM
WarEagle07 WarEagle07 is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
And I don't think she said every Tri Delt chapter is awesome everywhere.

What I think she meant is....put it this way, if you described my chapter to someone at Truman State, or Truman State's ASA chapter to someone at my school, they would look at you, head askance, and say, "You ARE talking about Alpha Sigma Alpha...the ones in red and white...right?"

It's not a matter of "better" or "worse", just DIFFERENT.
I knew I wasn't articulating my thoughts well. I'll try again...the part that bothered me was that the OP was so shocked about Pi Phi being on top but yet she was stated that she could have easily guessed the rest. Really? Out of how many NPC sororities...26? I always thought of it as a given that everyone knows that chapters are not equal from campus to campus, region to region...so why the surprise at Pi Phi and yet the remaining chapters were easy to guess? I'm not affiliated with Pi Phi but just the fact that it was called out by name along with the statement 'I could have easily guessed the rest' sounds a bit like a slam to me.
  #8  
Old 09-18-2008, 09:39 PM
TriDeltaSallie TriDeltaSallie is offline
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Originally Posted by WarEagle07 View Post
I knew I wasn't articulating my thoughts well. I'll try again...the part that bothered me was that the OP was so shocked about Pi Phi being on top but yet she was stated that she could have easily guessed the rest. Really? Out of how many NPC sororities...26? I always thought of it as a given that everyone knows that chapters are not equal from campus to campus, region to region...so why the surprise at Pi Phi and yet the remaining chapters were easy to guess? I'm not affiliated with Pi Phi but just the fact that it was called out by name along with the statement 'I could have easily guessed the rest' sounds a bit like a slam to me.
I'm sorry if it sounded like a slam. It certainly wasn't meant that way, but I can see how some might take it that way. To be honest, one of the other six on the list was also a surprise to me, but I didn't mention them by name.

My apologies to anyone who was offended by what I said.

I've been a registered member here a long time and comment very rarely. I think I'll just go back to lurking.
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  #9  
Old 09-18-2008, 10:16 PM
awkward1 awkward1 is offline
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Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie View Post
I'm sorry if it sounded like a slam. It certainly wasn't meant that way, but I can see how some might take it that way. To be honest, one of the other six on the list was also a surprise to me, but I didn't mention them by name.

My apologies to anyone who was offended by what I said.

I've been a registered member here a long time and comment very rarely. I think I'll just go back to lurking.
Take it with a grain of salt. This is what message boards are all about, stating and refuting opinions. I don't consider stating an opinion to be a personal attack or to be flaming. And I don't believe that Wareagle actually said anything snarky, just stated an opinion and you clarified your statement. Please keep posting but understand that people may not agree with you and may say so in no uncertain terms, and it certainly keeps things dynamic around here!
  #10  
Old 09-19-2008, 12:07 PM
WarEagle07 WarEagle07 is offline
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Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie View Post
I'm sorry if it sounded like a slam. It certainly wasn't meant that way, but I can see how some might take it that way. To be honest, one of the other six on the list was also a surprise to me, but I didn't mention them by name.

My apologies to anyone who was offended by what I said.

I've been a registered member here a long time and comment very rarely. I think I'll just go back to lurking.
No offense was intended, I just read the post in a different manner than the majority of people here.
  #11  
Old 09-19-2008, 12:39 PM
NutBrnHair NutBrnHair is offline
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Most of you were not in GLOs when Wilson Heller published his lists ranking sororities nationally. While his comments were always subjective, his "research" for the ranking was pretty objective. As President of my sorority, I remember receiving a form asking me to rank the other NPC groups on my campus. He then compiled this data from all over the country. Were his results the "be-all-end-all?" No, but it did give readers the perception of the "top" groups nationally.
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  #12  
Old 09-19-2008, 03:00 PM
ForeverRoses ForeverRoses is offline
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Originally Posted by NutBrnHair View Post
Most of you were not in GLOs when Wilson Heller published his lists ranking sororities nationally. While his comments were always subjective, his "research" for the ranking was pretty objective. As President of my sorority, I remember receiving a form asking me to rank the other NPC groups on my campus. He then compiled this data from all over the country. Were his results the "be-all-end-all?" No, but it did give readers the perception of the "top" groups nationally.

Wasn't the last Wilson Heller list published in the 1970s? Heller had a definite idea as to what made a top group-such frequent expansion to as many schools as possible. However I would have a hard time basing any judgement on data that was last updated 30 years ago.
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  #13  
Old 09-22-2008, 05:42 PM
irishpipes irishpipes is offline
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Originally Posted by 33girl View Post
Face it, if there was such a thing as "best sorority nationally" there would be a sorority with NO closed chapters. That sorority doesn't exist.
At the risk of being flamed, I'll go out on a limb and say that I do think that there is one sorority that stands out to me as being the best nationally. I'm not talking about the quality of the sisterhood enjoyed by its members, but rather a combination of statistical success along with a consistently positive reputation. It's just my opinion, of course, but I know it is one shared by people pretty high up in my org. I'm just talking about the organization as a whole, not the individual members or chapters. Like every org it has some weak chapters and individual members, of course. That doesn't mean I would rather be a member of that org - just that I respect it as the best overall nationally.
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  #14  
Old 09-22-2008, 07:15 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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At the risk of being flamed, I'll go out on a limb and say that I do think that there is one sorority that stands out to me as being the best nationally. I'm not talking about the quality of the sisterhood enjoyed by its members, but rather a combination of statistical success along with a consistently positive reputation. It's just my opinion, of course, but I know it is one shared by people pretty high up in my org. I'm just talking about the organization as a whole, not the individual members or chapters. Like every org it has some weak chapters and individual members, of course. That doesn't mean I would rather be a member of that org - just that I respect it as the best overall nationally.

I would tend to agree with you. There are a couple NPCs that I do admire for certain reasons (expansionary success, national programming). Not that I'd rather be in those sororities, but I do take notice of what they're doing and give credit where it's due. Not in an "oooh XYZ is top tier" way, but more in a (for example) "wow kudos to XYZ on their latest expansion, that's a tough campus" kind of way.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:26 PM
SWTXBelle SWTXBelle is offline
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I would just say that of course we all may have subjective opinions of individual sororities - we run into problems when some try to take objective data, or even purely subjective, and try to make some overall statement about status with it.

Some NPCs are stronger in some areas than others; some are larger, some are better off financially, some are more active philanthropically, some are better at expansion, some have impressive programming, but ALL have a great deal to offer pnms. We need the differences among us to be able to reach the largest possible variety of members. Viva la difference!
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