Obama Assassination attempt foiled

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I tend not to think of myself as a "simplistic" person, but hey, maybe that's a point where reasonable minds disagree.

I meant that it's simplistic to boil it down to race. Just because seemingly "racist redneck hicks" are attempting to assassinate him, it's not necessarily because of the color of his skin but could be due to his dangerous, disruptive, and embarrassing policies.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I meant that it's simplistic to boil it down to race. Just because seemingly "racist redneck hicks" are attempting to assassinate him, it's not necessarily because of the color of his skin but could be due to his dangerous, disruptive, and embarrassing policies.

How many assassination attempts have there been on any other candidate in the past, say, 20 years? How many candidates have been viewed as "radical/dangerous/disruptive" in either direction? It sure seems like one answer is "0" and the other is "certainly not 0" . . .

In your quest to avoid "oversimplification" it sure seems like you're ignoring the clear solution under Occam's Razor. You really think dudes with ties to white supremacist/neo-Nazi organizations are worried about Obama's stance on public finance or welfare compared with the very real threat of a Black man leading in every major poll?

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

How many assassination attempts have there been on any other candidate in the past, say, 20 years? How many candidates have been viewed as "radical/dangerous/disruptive" in either direction? It sure seems like one answer is "0" and the other is "certainly not 0" . . .

Well, attempts or plots? I haven't read the article but I believe that it was just a plot, no? A gunmen didn't shoot at Obama but miss, did he? I would imagine there have been plots of assassination for every viable presidential candidate in the last twenty years. Have every single one of them been uncovered? Hardly. I attempted to google information on that but all it brought up was the Obama attempts.

Radical/dangerous/disruptive? That's what every viable presidential candidate (and some not so viable) is labled as every year by both sides of the spectrum of the media and the general public. That's how I labeled Obama and how someone else will label McCain.

In your quest to avoid "oversimplification" it sure seems like you're ignoring the clear solution under Occam's Razor. You really think dudes with ties to white supremacist/neo-Nazi organizations are worried about Obama's stance on public finance or welfare compared with the very real threat of a Black man leading in every major poll?

Many white supremacist and so forth are also very against the federal government, money not backed by securities, and gun control among other things. Obama represents all those things politically and so not necessarily the attempt was due to Obama's race. It's just far too easy (but wrong) to peg it solely to racism as Mrs. Wright would have you believe.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Well, attempts or plots? I haven't read the article but I believe that it was just a plot, no? A gunmen didn't shoot at Obama but miss, did he? I would imagine there have been plots of assassination for every viable presidential candidate in the last twenty years. Have every single one of them been uncovered? Hardly. I attempted to google information on that but all it brought up was the Obama attempts.

This is semantics, but I don't think the distinction is all that important. Either way, this is the first plot I've heard getting to this level that I can remember. The lack of ability to search for other examples may indeed be indicative of the dearth of other attempts.

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Radical/dangerous/disruptive? That's what every viable presidential candidate (and some not so viable) is labled as every year by both sides of the spectrum of the media and the general public. That's how I labeled Obama and how someone else will label McCain.

Quite true - and since this happens, and there have been no credible attempts on McCain's life (for instance), we should begin to look for the difference between the other candidates labeled as such and Mr. Obama, no?

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Many white supremacist and so forth are also very against the federal government, money not backed by securities, and gun control among other things. Obama represents all those things politically and so not necessarily the attempt was due to Obama's race. It's just far too easy (but wrong) to peg it solely to racism as Mrs. Wright would have you believe.

So let's start to look at the differences. Many past Democratic candidates have supported a larger Federal government, held similar fiscal opinions, and certainly supported the same gun control legislation. We have heard of zero credible plots to take their lives.

Again, the difference seems simple: he's black.

White supremacist organizations have a very simple mandate that runs against what you're claiming in this thread, and I'm not sure why you're ignoring that mandate. It's not "pro-Obama" to recognize that the guy will certainly face dangers that no other Presidential candidate will face, and that a large part of that is because of his race.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

So let's start to look at the differences. Many past Democratic candidates have supported a larger Federal government, held similar fiscal opinions, and certainly supported the same gun control legislation. We have heard of zero credible plots to take their lives.

Again, the difference seems simple: he's black.

White supremacist organizations have a very simple mandate that runs against what you're claiming in this thread, and I'm not sure why you're ignoring that mandate. It's not "pro-Obama" to recognize that the guy will certainly face dangers that no other Presidential candidate will face, and that a large part of that is because of his race.

While not recent, I wasn't aware Robert Kennedy was black?

Edit: And one may argue (similar to my google search) that there hasn't been such media hype on both sides of the aisle about a Democrat nominee like Obama since perhaps.... Robert Kennedy?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

While not recent, I wasn't aware Robert Kennedy was black?

Edit: And one may argue (similar to my google search) that there hasn't been such media hype on both sides of the aisle about a Democrat nominee like Obama since perhaps.... Robert Kennedy?

So you get the point that assassination attempts occur because of the threat of change. Kennedy represented that and he not only had an attempt but he was aware of the assassination potential. He therefore had to understand that the potential is different than that of other presidents whose policies or other qualities fit the status quo.

Now...follow me here to get the larger and more general point...multiply that potential when the candidate is of a group that instantly challenges the status quo: black, female, homosexual, Jewish, etc.

Take care.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

So you get the point that assassination attempts occur because of the threat of change. Kennedy represented that and he not only had an attempt but he was aware of the assassination potential. He therefore had to understand that the potential is different than that of other presidents whose policies or other qualities fit the status quo.

Now...follow me here to get the larger and more general point...multiply that potential when the candidate is of a group that instantly challenges the status quo: black, female, homosexual, Jewish, etc.

Take care.

Follow me poor dear,

at what point did I say any thing about him having any ability to or actually any stance that isn't the status quo? If anything, he's anti-change. He's the same boring politician as every other with no difference.

Furthermore, your initial premise is foolish and simply stupid. Assassination attempts occur only because the threat of change? Reagan as a counter example comes quickly to mind. I didn't realize the "so-called progressives" were the only politicos to be subject to assassinations. If you qualify your statement with "assassinations sometimes come because of fear of change", then it might be true but also invalidate your following sentences.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

While not recent, I wasn't aware Robert Kennedy was black?

Edit: And one may argue (similar to my google search) that there hasn't been such media hype on both sides of the aisle about a Democrat nominee like Obama since perhaps.... Robert Kennedy?

This is why I limited the argument to the last 20-25 years - because the "change" of the 60s seems like a difficult time to translate to today (plus I didn't want to muddy this up with irrelevant material such as the attempt on Reagan). It wasn't out of convenience for my argument, but expedience for our relevant memories - I personally have no idea if anyone threatened Mondale, but would remember any other credible threats.

However, if you'd like to make such a comparison, it seems like a tacit admission that race is a primary factor for assassination attempts on Obama even though RFK was white - just think for yourself about the changes RFK represented and the period in which he lived.

Additionally, your OpEd interjection (and really this whole point) is a complete strawman, honestly - the main point still stands: Obama's policies have been parroted or preceded by others who did not receive the same threats (that we know about). These people were white.

Besides this, if your only example is RFK during the height of the civil rights movement and its dovetailing with Vietnam, you're not exactly disproving my point, since RFK was a strident supporter of the civil rights movement, even though his assassination shows no real connection to the movement itself (personally I think Sirhan Sirhan was just crazy, rather than anti-Israel).

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

You really think dudes with ties to white supremacist/neo-Nazi organizations are worried about Obama's stance on public finance or welfare compared with the very real threat of a Black man leading in every major poll?

Exactly.

Sure, supremacists tend to also be anti-government and would hate a perceived socialist but that certainly doesn't refute what I said.

My post was about the general phenomenon and not about this particular assassination attempt. EW would know that if he wasn't so obsessed with Reverend Wright.