College Presidents Seek to Lower Drinking Age

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

Because no matter what age you set as the legal age to do anything, you will have people/kids several years younger trying and succeeding in doing it.

Now the legal age is 21, yet lots of 18 year old are getting into clubs and drinking, buying alcohol, etc. You lower the legal age to 18, and you have 15 year olds being able to pass for 18.

Granted, anyone who really wants to drink will probably not have a problem getting it, but why make it easier for children - and yes, a 15 yo is still a child - to get their hands on alcohol?

I admit that there is no right answer, and it might be a moot point, but even if the law sets an arbitrary age, I think that people feel better knowing that it's much harder for a 15 year old to get alcohol than an 18 year old.

This isn't about what makes people "feel better." It's about laws that actually work. And lots of 15 year olds are getting into clubs right now, even with the increased age.

[agzg]

I almost feel like it's not going to make too much of a difference either way. But that could be because I'm (and I think a lot of the people in this discussion are) coming from the viewpoint of someone who is above the legal age regardless.

I'm pretty sure though, that if you ask most 18 year olds if they want to be of legal age, they'd say yes.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by 33girl

This isn't about what makes people "feel better." It's about laws that actually work. And lots of 15 year olds are getting into clubs right now, even with the increased age.

Great in theory, but I think that many people vote based on their emotions, though. I'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful of people understand the laws (any law), how they came to fruition, and who supported them.

Look at the presidential election campaigns. Ask ten people who they are voting for and why, and I'll bet that most of them will give answers like "he's too old", "he's too inexperienced", "he has miliatary experience and that makes me feel safe", "it's time for a black president", "women are too emotional to be president", etc.

[SWTXBelle]

I remember when the drinking age in Texas was 19. No, we didn't have bands of 15 year olds running around from happy hour to happy hour. As an 18 year old I remember vividly not being able to even get into clubs, never mind buy a drink. Could I get alcohol? Probably - but I wasn't all that motiviated, I guess. And, I was legal my freshman year - so it wasn't that long of a wait.

With today's harder to duplicate ids, and proper enforcement, there is no reason that lowering the drinking age to 19 (or 18) has to mean younger teens getting into any more trouble than they already do. Also, the penalties for MIPs and DUIs are stiffer now (at least here) then they were "back in the day".

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

With today's harder to duplicate ids, and proper enforcement, there is no reason that lowering the drinking age to 19 (or 18) has to mean younger teens getting into any more trouble than they already do. Also, the penalties for MIPs and DUIs are stiffer now (at least here) then they were "back in the day".

I wouldn't be sure about that. I know people with fake ideas that look just like the real ones. The ones I saw didn't glow under a blacklight, which meant it was no good for clubs. But it still worked plenty well for bars and liquor stores.

[CrackerBarrel]

Very few people get a "fake" id anymore. They find someone that looks like them and get theirs. That's what almost all the fakes I've seen recently are at least.

[SWTXBelle]

A former student of mine had an interesting idea - why doesn't MADD try and get the DRIVING age upped? It's easier to control driving than drinking . . .he said this firmly tongue in cheek, btw.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

Age restrictions on drinking are often viewed as arbitrary. "Most kids drink anyway", "If you can vote and die for your country, then you should be able to drink". The other side argues that the lower the legal age, the lower the age group of kids with fake IDs or sneaking into bars hoping that they don't get carded. Both sides' arguments are valid, but the first one is based on emotion, while the second is a logical assumption.

I don't have an answer, but I my biggest question is, if an 18 year old's brain is still developing, as are their level of maturity, responsibility, and worldliness, wouldn't handing them something that all but absolutely can/will skew their judgment only increases the lieklihood of impulsiveness that is more prevalent in younger people?

Yes, there are many "kids" out there who are capable of drinking in moderation, driving responsibly, and managing their lives productively, but even the most savvy, intelligent, world-traveled 18 or 19 year olds still have so much to learn. Presumably, then, giving them something that decreases their judgment (as more than one drink can) has no merits other than to satisfy emotional reasoning.

So to those who advocate lowering the drinking age, how would you respond to my last few paragraphs?

*Some of my points were inspired/triggered from http://www.asfar.org/zine/6th/cover.html with additional citations I found. The rest (in green) are my own thoughts.

I would respond by saying that since the National Institute of Health believes that the brain is not fully developed until 25, why do you think the drinking age of 21 is high enough? Maybe we should move it to 25 - maybe even 30 just to be sure. That would be ideal, so 25 year olds can't sneak into bars with fake IDs. Then people would feel better knowing that 'minors' with underdeveloped brains aren't drinking. Right?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Jan31.html

[Kevin]

You know.. for every year the age is pushed back, lives would probably be saved.

Why not just move it to 65?

[LΩVE]

I turned 18 just a couple of weeks after arriving at college. Though I wasn't supporting myself financially, I was taking care of myself in all other respects. I also, on that day, became qualified to choose who leads my country, fight and die for my country, and had I lived in any other normal state, buy cigarettes, sign my own contracts, and marry. I already had the right to drive.

So why can I not drink a beer?

I felt that way before I turned 21 and I still do.

I feel that the age for everything needs to be the same. I can say that drinking did lose a little of the sparkle it had before I became legal. I enjoy it and frequently have one with dinner (when I can afford it), but drinking like a freshman almost never happens now. If nothing else, my body can't handle it as well. Now instead of waking up ready to do it all over again I wake up feeling like someone threw me down a hill in a trash can full of rocks. And it's that way for most of my friends too.

I think the argument that liability issues could be reduced by lowering the drinking age is a damn good one. We're not all mature by 18 or 19, but I think choosing the president or sacrificing your life or getting married are all life changing and important decisions and if we're deemed mature enough to make those, we are mature enough to choose to drink or not.

[exlurker]

And at Indiana University of Pennsylvania apparently just rolling out of bed when intoxicated can be dangerous, although in this case the fall from a second-story window at Theta Chi didn't result in serious injuries. The young lady and her boyfriend are both reported as being 19:

http://online.indianagazette.com/ind...6331&Itemid=52

[nittanyalum]

There's an editorial in tomorrow's Washington Post about this (they always have to slide in the slam on greek life, don't they? ): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...r=emailarticle

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by exlurker

And at Indiana University of Pennsylvania apparently just rolling out of bed when intoxicated can be dangerous, although in this case the fall from a second-story window at Theta Chi didn't result in serious injuries. The young lady and her boyfriend are both reported as being 19:

http://online.indianagazette.com/ind...6331&Itemid=52

This falling out of open second story windows always makes me wonder... Why do these windows not have screens???? Cuz seriously, you wouldn't have to be drunk to roll out of an open window while sound asleep if your bed is right next to an open window...

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by AGDee

This falling out of open second story windows always makes me wonder... Why do these windows not have screens???? Cuz seriously, you wouldn't have to be drunk to roll out of an open window while sound asleep if your bed is right next to an open window...

They made a huge deal out of this at W&L. Campus hearsay was that a similar incident (rolling out of your bed while drunk) had happened at W&L in the 80s or early 90s. Don't know if this was true.

When I was a dorm counselor I was required to inspect the girls' room set-ups to make sure that no had had their beds pushed against the window. Really. I was also supposed to do informal visual checks from time to time to ensure that that the screens were still in their windows.

People do take their window screens out for a variety of reasons, and IMO it is a good idea for colleges to require that people not do this. Of course I guess it's more of a problem at places that have dorms without A/C - if the dorms have A/C the windows probably aren't getting opened nearly as much.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

A former student of mine had an interesting idea - why doesn't MADD try and get the DRIVING age upped? It's easier to control driving than drinking . . .he said this firmly tongue in cheek, btw.

A lot of states are trying to do this with the graduated licensing laws - I know NC passed it right as I was 14 or 15 and was in the first cohort of teenage drivers affecting. It basically limited driving at night or driving friends around until you were 16.5 or 17. It also required that you be enrolled in high school to have a license.

There is waaaaaaaay too much opposition to raising the driving age though for that to ever be viable for MADD...