Why? Sophomore UGA story

[baci]

In a realistic world here, no one can feel comfortable in all of the groups and feel they can be a part/fit into all of the groups to maximize their options. Sure she can go to all of the parties and try, but having 12 that she was "solidly interested" in was a very high percentage. From my experiences, young women usually are not that openminded and do not have an interest in that many groups.

Honestly, she would not have been an asset in one of those other grouops because she did not have the desire/compassion to join. That is one thing I always keep in mind.

Sorority life is a wonderful experience, but in all honesty it is not always about GPA, activities, philanthropy, and recs that help you to receive an invite. Enough said.

I do hope she finds peace now as the semester starts and maybe something will happen for her when she least expects.

[shadden]

This year there were alot of sophomores going through rush at UGA - don't know how it compares to previous years, but there were easily over 100, maybe closer to 200. I know some who did pledge, so obviously it was not an impossibilitly. Again, this was a great group of girls overall, and I think that really impacts the liklihood of sophomore pledging. It has become so difficult to get into UGA, that few girls are released due to grades - there has to be other criteria, and I am sure class standing is one of the big things.

[Lightning Bug!]

Originally Posted by UGAALUM

I know some colleges don't have houses only lodges, but for the ones that do I think living in the house is the best experience I ever had. Back in the day we lived in the house for 2 years because the houses were large and the chapters smaller ( late 1970) You can live in an apartment after you get out of school, but only one time in your life can you live in house. If you don't want to do it why join a sorority? The thing that has amazed me is the number of parents that pay for their daughter to live in the house and then rent an apartment for them. As a Mother why wouldn't you want your daughter to live in the house with a House Mother (no curfew) that allows no alcohol, smoking or boys in the rooms. I know some parents say they can't study, but there are quiet hours and study rooms better than the dorms.

Oh, I liked living in the house...I did it for three years! I just came from a campus where 30-40 girls living in-house was the norm, and I was surprised to see "only 66"! I was thinking about the days when all thirty-something of us were hormonal and stressed out and then tried to multiply that by 2! But I also remember the nights we used to run out and 'borrow' fraternity composites, and we could have come up with some much more elaborate missions had we had double the numbers in-house...

[33girl]

Originally Posted by I.C. a Pi Phi

Class year is also looked at as $$ contribution. Let's say your dues are $1000/year.

If you pledge a freshman, that person is bringing $4000 to the sorority before you have to "replace" them, while the sophomore is contributing $3000.

Only if she stays the whole 4 years and doesn't drop out. If you have a lot of people burning out before their junior or senior year and terminating, the "we can get 4 years worth of dues" out of her really isn't a valid argument.

Originally Posted by UGAALUM

You can live in an apartment after you get out of school, but only one time in your life can you live in house. If you don't want to do it why join a sorority? The thing that has amazed me is the number of parents that pay for their daughter to live in the house and then rent an apartment for them. As a Mother why wouldn't you want your daughter to live in the house with a House Mother (no curfew) that allows no alcohol, smoking or boys in the rooms. I know some parents say they can't study, but there are quiet hours and study rooms better than the dorms.

Not everyone is suited to communal living. You shouldn't have to give up your chance to be part of a sorority because of it.

And if I was a parent...I would much rather my daughter live in a place without archaic rules where she can do what she wants to without sneaking out or driving drunk...but that is another thread.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by baci

In a realistic world here, no one can feel comfortable in all of the groups and feel they can be a part/fit into all of the groups to maximize their options. Sure she can go to all of the parties and try, but having 12 that she was "solidly interested" in was a very high percentage. From my experiences, young women usually are not that openminded and do not have an interest in that many groups.

I disagree. She is a sophomore, which means she has been on campus long enough to know the stereotypes, "tiers", etc.

There is no way that there are SIX out of SEVENTEEN chapters that someone just "wouldn't fit into or feel comfortable in"

One or two, maybe, but six is ridiculous.

She basically ruined her chances the second rush started by placing a big red X on those six chapters.

Honestly, she would not have been an asset in one of those other grouops because she did not have the desire/compassion to join. That is one thing I always keep in mind.

Well if those chapters weren't good enough for her, I suppose it's a good thing she ruled those out early on so that those chapters could choose women who did want to be there that would make good members.

But if she's not going to maximize her options, there's no reason why everyone needs to be upset about her not receiving a bid. I can't guarantee that she would have received a bid to any of those houses, but it's a possibility, right? We'll never know b/c she ruled them out early on.

I can't count on all my fingers and toes the number of stories on here where women didn't get their "top choice" houses, and were somewhat disappointed on bid day, but then turned around their attitude and realized how wonderful this house was and how they wouldn't have it any other way.

[APhiAnna]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

There is no way that there are SIX out of SEVENTEEN chapters that someone just "wouldn't fit into or feel comfortable in"

One or two, maybe, but six is ridiculous.

She basically ruined her chances the second rush started by placing a big red X on those six chapters.

I agree, but the caveat is that a PNM not feeling she would be comfortable in 6 chapters is outrageous...but it's not always outrageous that a PNM would not feel comfortable in 6 chapters (out of 17) based on how they presented themselves during rush. At my campus I think I could fit into the overwhelming majority of chapters (if not all of them), but during recruitment we all know of chapters that come off poorly despite their incredible group personality. Sometimes they act stressed, sometimes defeated, sometimes reeking of trying too hard, etc. That act will undoubtedly lead women astray about their true personality...after bid day, often these chapters will be some of the most fun and down to earth!

That's why I'd advise women (only at a competitive school where COB/COR opportunities are practically non-existent and often as competitive as the original formal recruitment) to accept any bid and roll with it for a few weeks. Often times a chapter will scare away PNMs based on poor recruiting skills (often fostered by an intense or negative recruitment chair or recruitment advisor) but in reality they are a very fun group of women.

[texas*princess]

^^ I agree that poor recruitment skills could be a factor in some cases, however, in this case, the OP said, and I quote:

1 - Maybe, but she did have 12 solidly on her "very
interested in" list going in. She was cut by all but one after second round.

Which means she made up her mind, without having attended a single recruitment party, which ones she felt were 'acceptable'. So in this case, the recruitment skills had nothing to do with it.

[baci]

From my experience attending a competitive southern university, I went in as a student feeling/believing I could fit in any of the groups. In the small amount of time I attended recruitment, I knew there were several I did not feel comfortable in/with. Maybe that was due to my insecurities and maybe it was how they presented themselves to me during recruitment. I can't say for certain and I will never know the answer to that.

What I can say, as I continued to spend time at the university I did realize many groups would not be a fit for me. You learn that through several avenues while attending university during your first year. It is not hard for me to understand that someone does not see a fit for them in a handful of groups after attending one full year at a university.

I do feel for the young lady, but she made her choice and she will now deal with the consequences. I am just not so quick to judge that her choice was ridiculous and that she ruined her chances. I do not know all of the circumstances to make such a statement.

I do agree that, by her not maximizing her options, she left the door open for other young women to find a place in a sisterhood they may love.

[violetpretty]

We still don't have the whole story here. We do know that this PNM was cut by 11 of her 12 favorites after round 1. Did she go to round 2? Did she go to round 3? Did she try to give all the groups a chance and "get cut by all of them" before pref?

I might have some sympathy if this girl all chapters another chance and was cut from ALL chapters, but if she saw her list and decided none of those 6 were good enough for her, without giving them another chance, sorry, no sympathy from me.

[MaggieXi]

Also, on certain campus' (and this may or may not apply to UGA) but if a girl is very vocal about how/why she doesn't like XYZ or thinks she is better than XYZ prior to going through recruitment- other sorority women could find out and this could be a huge negative factor towards the PNM.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

We still don't have the whole story here. We do know that this PNM was cut by 11 of her 12 favorites after round 1. Did she go to round 2? Did she go to round 3? Did she try to give all the groups a chance and "get cut by all of them" before pref?

I might have some sympathy if this girl all chapters another chance and was cut from ALL chapters, but if she saw her list and decided none of those 6 were good enough for her, without giving them another chance, sorry, no sympathy from me.

I wasn't going to say anything since it does not matter at this point, but as long as we are being asked to come up with reasons why this recruitment situation did not work out, I have a comment and a question.

Comment- I was at UGA over 10 years ago for part of my undergrad experience, and so things might have changed- but while there are "tiers" at UGA, the fact is all of the sorority chapters there have a lot going for them and the majority are pretty stunning across the board. This is in contrast to most other southern schools I know where quality and stability can vary a great deal.

Point being, if daughter came into this not interested in 1/3 of the chapters- that sounds like coming into the process cutting certain chapters from the list based on them "not being good enough". At other schools, one might expect a person taking this approach to only want a few houses- but at Georgia to only want 2/3 of the houses seems like a "not good enough" play to me.

Question- There is something here that makes no sense to me and could shed light on this whole affair,

Based on the posts we have a PNM who sounds like a solid candidate on paper, who came from a Greek background (meaning parents/family members would have an idea what goes on and what rush entails), who has a lot of solid recs lined up and who went to UGA as a freshman. In other words, this is someone who would come into the rush process likely to be a lot more aware of how it works than many other PNMs.

So why wait to sophomore year to rush at a highly competitive campus? If this is really what the PNM wanted going into college, the most basic research would have quickly shown that rushing as a freshman was essential.

[snakealum]

Snake is a Sigma Nu snake.
It's not my daughter, it's my goddaughter (fraternity brother's daughter, I have only sons, though, so I guess I treat her almost as mine)
War analogy was a little harsh, I apologize - I'm a guy, that's how we talk!

The 12 choices I referred to were for her first round of cuts, she received 10 return invites for Round 2 and went to all 10. Yes, I am sure that she had SOME preconceived notions as everyone does. I would even add that the sororities themselves have them, how else could the first couple of cut rounds be done with so little interaction? Seven sororities cut her after a ten minute conversation. Did they have a totally open mind, maximizing their options? Let's not condemn a PNM for what we support on the Sorority side.

I do believe that she went into things with an open mind. I will say that she was thrilled with the visits she had and felt welcomed at all houses as well. That is why only one invite back the next morning (3rd round) hit her so hard. She did gather herself up and go to that house on Saturday but was called Saturday night and released.

For those of you that asked, she did not rush as a freshman since both her Mom & Dad had pledged as Sophomores and had no problems (also at UGA but many moons ago). Their feeling was that you should get your feet on the ground and then rush. When she got to school, she did realize that it was a potential negative and she worked very hard to make sure that she did everything "right" this fall.

The system worked at the macro level. All you have to do is look at the hundreds/thousands of smiling faces this week in Athens. All I'm saying is that, from my perspective, a bias against upperclassmen might have played a significant part in this story and I was curious if that was true. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, I accept we will never know. I must say after reading some of the responses, however, that I would be careful to not blindly and unquestioningly support a system that is primarily defended by blaming and/or casting doubts about a fine young lady. Life is not fair but that doesn't mean we quit trying to make it fairer and better. For now that is not my fight, I have sons.

[vsgirl]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If you are only transferring to UGA because you want to be in a sorority there, I would rethink this plan.

Did you actually go through rush at your school and meet the women, or are you making this judgement without any firsthand experience?

No, I have been planning on going to UGA for quite some time, I go to a small college in central GA. I went through rush, got the wrong impression and decided not to go on. I still remain friends with my GC group, a few others as well. The girls in my GC group recieved bids and are active in their sororities, the other girls in those sororities don't even care to say hello to me or strike up a conversation whenever I run into them. I know they don't have a commitment to, but these are the same girls that introduced themselves to me and were quite friendly. I don't think you just forget someone that easily. I didn't offend anyone because I decided to not go through rush. I didn't tell anyone that I had a bad impression, I said that things were too crazy at the moment and I would try again at another point. Thats when I started to get the feeling that perhaps they didn't want anything to do with me because I wasn't greek.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by snakealum

Let's not condemn a PNM for what we support on the Sorority side.

No one "supports" the fact that the sororities have so little time with the rushees. When you can come up with a better system to introduce 1000 women into groups that isn't 1) a random lottery or 2) doesn't take up the majority of their time for weeks and weeks, we'll be glad to listen.

Believe me, the women in the sororities are not having fun cutting rushees.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by vsgirl

No, I have been planning on going to UGA for quite some time, I go to a small college in central GA. I went through rush, got the wrong impression and decided not to go on. I still remain friends with my GC group, a few others as well. The girls in my GC group recieved bids and are active in their sororities, the other girls in those sororities don't even care to say hello to me or strike up a conversation whenever I run into them. I know they don't have a commitment to, but these are the same girls that introduced themselves to me and were quite friendly. I don't think you just forget someone that easily. I didn't offend anyone because I decided to not go through rush. I didn't tell anyone that I had a bad impression, I said that things were too crazy at the moment and I would try again at another point. Thats when I started to get the feeling that perhaps they didn't want anything to do with me because I wasn't greek.

Honestly, the women in the sororities met lots and lots of girls during rush. Even at a smaller school, after so many faces they all start to blur. You can't remember everyone who goes through. I would urge you not to take it so personally.