UGA Recruitment Winds Down

[Greek Stress]

I have just spent the last week talking and texting with my daughter a PNM at UGA.
What a stressful week for both of us. I come from greek life of 30 years ago. It was never this bad. Yes my daughter got a bid from a sorority she wanted but she was forced to suicide that bid. The only other pref she was invited to was a sorority she felt she would not fit at all at. She did not want to be forced to join it if her first choice did not take her. But because she did not maximise her bid process, if the 1st choice had denied her she would not have been able to be picked up by others or go through informal rush. I understand this rule and that some would abuse it if they could "work the system" But what about those that are truly unmatched with any other choices? She was cut early by a couple sororities who she felt she knew several girls and would be ok. I have heard that if they are a sophomore they have "no say". How can so many girls get cut with only 7-10 min. with one or 2 girls who may also have not had much in common with her? She got mismatched but took the boot because of it. There must be a better way?

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

I have just spent the last week talking and texting with my daughter a PNM at UGA.
What a stressful week for both of us. I come from greek life of 30 years ago. It was never this bad. Yes my daughter got a bid from a sorority she wanted but she was forced to suicide that bid. The only other pref she was invited to was a sorority she felt she would not fit at all at. She did not want to be forced to join it if her first choice did not take her. But because she did not maximise her bid process, if the 1st choice had denied her she would not have been able to be picked up by others or go through informal rush. I understand this rule and that some would abuse it if they could "work the system" But what about those that are truly unmatched with any other choices? She was cut early by a couple sororities who she felt she knew several girls and would be ok. I have heard that if they are a sophomore they have "no say". How can so many girls get cut with only 7-10 min. with one or 2 girls who may also have not had much in common with her? She got mismatched but took the boot because of it. There must be a better way?

Your daughter got a bid from a sorority she wanted. Others were not as lucky.

Just leave it at that and don't waste your time asking "how come?"

[Lightning Bug!]

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

I have just spent the last week talking and texting with my daughter a PNM at UGA.
What a stressful week for both of us. I come from greek life of 30 years ago. It was never this bad. Yes my daughter got a bid from a sorority she wanted but she was forced to suicide that bid. The only other pref she was invited to was a sorority she felt she would not fit at all at. She did not want to be forced to join it if her first choice did not take her. But because she did not maximise her bid process, if the 1st choice had denied her she would not have been able to be picked up by others or go through informal rush. I understand this rule and that some would abuse it if they could "work the system" But what about those that are truly unmatched with any other choices? She was cut early by a couple sororities who she felt she knew several girls and would be ok. I have heard that if they are a sophomore they have "no say". How can so many girls get cut with only 7-10 min. with one or 2 girls who may also have not had much in common with her? She got mismatched but took the boot because of it. There must be a better way?

Welcome to modern, computerized, regulated sorority recruitment in the South! Be glad your daughter's story ended up being a happy one...we all ask these questions about the recruitment process, but unfortunately PNM numbers have gotten to the point where strict regulation and expediting of the recruitment process are completely necessary. The system is far from perfect, and both the schools and the organizations are working to find the best way to do it. Of course it is unfortunate that houses cut girls they've only spoken with for 20 minutes...but you cannot have 1000+++ girls get extended time with each sorority's members...the process would drag out forever and ever and ever, and everyone would collapse!

As OTW says...count your blessings...you could be consoling a heartbroken girl instead of just a stressed out one!

[Greek Stress]

You know, I am just trying to better understand. I am not the type who just accepts it and lays down. She got into a sorority yes, was it the one of the ones she wanted more than others, did she feel she was left with any other choice, NO. Yes that is my point, I ache for the girls who pulled out and the girls who did not get a bid. I think it is horrible.
Don't you think there are ways for surveys to be taken by the PNM's to better educate the houses on who is coming to rush and to better match them with girls they are interviewed by? Obviously using resumes does not do it. My daughter had hundreds of hours of service work in a variety of organizations, she had recs from everyone. Sheer numbers yes, but more research and time can be taken. 11 houses in one day is ridiculous.
These girls went home and went to bed and still were completely exhaused by day 3 and 4. They can't "perform" to their best when put in that condition. If only you knew the hours of tears. You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?

[ugadg]

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?

Why would you want your daughter to be associated with women who cut her for brainless, rude reasons and who are extremely wicked? And why would your daughter want to be with them?

It sounds like she has landed exactly where she should. People never believe it at the time, but these girls really do a better job then you think of picking girls like them.

[MerryGPhiB]

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

You know, I am just trying to better understand. I am not the type who just accepts it and lays down. She got into a sorority yes, was it the one of the ones she wanted more than others, did she feel she was left with any other choice, NO. Yes that is my point, I ache for the girls who pulled out and the girls who did not get a bid. I think it is horrible.
Don't you think there are ways for surveys to be taken by the PNM's to better educate the houses on who is coming to rush and to better match them with girls they are interviewed by? Obviously using resumes does not do it. My daughter had hundreds of hours of service work in a variety of organizations, she had recs from everyone. Sheer numbers yes, but more research and time can be taken. 11 houses in one day is ridiculous.
These girls went home and went to bed and still were completely exhaused by day 3 and 4. They can't "perform" to their best when put in that condition. If only you knew the hours of tears. You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?

Greek Stress- you bring up excellent points that NPC has been working on for years. I too agree there is no perfect system and what I do know is women go into recruitment thinking I only want to be in this house or this other.

Here is what I do know, many women who try a house/group most of the time end up happy. It's a bit of "what I know now that I wish I knew then" sometimes mistakes happen. And that is what also happens in life. Not to say that makes it right. I was given an incorrect bid ( this was in the days of hand matching) and it turns out it was a mistake. I was given one week to depledge and repledge the other group ( which historically was the "best" house on campus)-- what happened? I loved my pledge class and the women I got to know after rush ended and decided to stay. I have never regretted it and 30 years later they are still my dearest friends.

That is why so many women on GC encourage having an open mind. It can end up being the best years of your life- if you let it. And we can always improve hopefully, the greek system will have a survey after recruitment to evaluate the process. Then will be the perfect time for your daughter to share her thoughts.

Congratulations to your daughter and her mom who cares so much~!
Smiles

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

If only you knew the hours of tears. You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?

Okay, now I'm a little confused. First, we know about the hours of tears. Just check out UGADad's post - some of those tears are on our side. Don't forget - the alumnae and actives have to prepare for those 11 parties in one day, attend the parties, and then try to trim down their lists of beautiful, talented girls.

And no, I don't know of these "brainless, rude reasons". Do elaborate. I don't know to which sorority you belong, but I can assure you, without going into membership selection, that "brainless and rude" reasons wouldn't fly. "Wicked"? That's a loaded word - do you know of a single reason why your daughter was cut from a house? And when your daughter was presented with her list of houses that extended invitations to her, did the ones who cut her write rude comments on it? As she passed the houses who had cut her, did they point and laugh? Somehow, I doubt it. You must remember - just because a pnm feels a connection to a chapter does not mean that the chapter feels that connection with her. It hurts - rejection always does. But it may just be as simple as that - it doesn't mean that the chapter members are brainless, rude or wicked. They may simply have not liked your daughter as much as they liked another pnm.

Seriously, I was very sympathetic to your compassion for those who were cut - but then you started pulling out all these judgements about chapters who cut your daughter - based on what? Your chapter's experience 30 years ago? Your reading of "Pledged"? What?

I'm afraid you are coming off as more concerned about those awful chapters who cut your daughter than in the fact that the vast majority of those going through recruitment found an acceptable home.

Again, where are your suggestions for improvement?

[DoctorD]

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

You know, I am just trying to better understand. I am not the type who just accepts it and lays down. She got into a sorority yes, was it the one of the ones she wanted more than others, did she feel she was left with any other choice, NO. Yes that is my point, I ache for the girls who pulled out and the girls who did not get a bid. I think it is horrible.
Don't you think there are ways for surveys to be taken by the PNM's to better educate the houses on who is coming to rush and to better match them with girls they are interviewed by? Obviously using resumes does not do it. My daughter had hundreds of hours of service work in a variety of organizations, she had recs from everyone. Sheer numbers yes, but more research and time can be taken. 11 houses in one day is ridiculous.
These girls went home and went to bed and still were completely exhaused by day 3 and 4. They can't "perform" to their best when put in that condition. If only you knew the hours of tears. You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?

UGADad said it well earlier - it is hard on both sides - perhaps even harder on the other side, particularly at a school the size of UGA.

No one forgets how hard it is. And I will go out on a limb and say that every group does the best they can in this situation, and each group tries to treat each group of PNMs coming in the house the same as if it is the first party of the day.

So, with that... congrats to your daughter for receiving a bid! When it comes down to it, she can join only one sorority. What she chooses to get out of it is now up to her.

Let the celebrations commence! Milledge Avenue and Lumpkin Street will be the center of the universe for many a UGA student tonight.

[violetpretty]

I'll touch on what hasn't been explicitly said. In the past 10 years, it has become very popular, particularly on campuses with large numbers of PNMs and chapters to use the release figure method (RFM). The purpose of the release figure method is to place the maximum number of PNMs. Certain chapters ("popular" ones---ones that a high percentage of PNMs would opt to return to if invited) are forced by the College Panhellenic to cut a high percentage of PNMs after the first round. Other chapters will make the majority of their cuts at different points in recruitment.

I've read recruitment stories from before the RFM was used. It was fairly common for a PNM to be invited to every (or almost every) chapter after the first round. So, of course, the PNM has the power to cut whichever chapters she wants, and usually it's the "low-tier" chapters that get cut in such a situation. Meanwhile, the "popular" chapters are inviting back tons of PNMs that they have no real intention or ability to pledge. Not using RFM on a big campus will usually guarantee a big discrepancy in size among chapters (ie "low tier" chapters don't make quota), and a lot of PNMs who get cut out of options later in recruitment because they opted to cut chapters where they had a realistic shot at a bid (lots of unmatched PNMs). VERY often, women will return to chapters that they didn't like after one or two rounds (ie. would have cut them if allowed) and find that it is the place for them.

Now, about "popular" chapters and their cuts. I will never know how any other chapter does membership selection but my own (and that's in a limited time frame), but I can speculate that because they have to make the biggest cuts after the first round that there isn't always a "reason" or there is a silly reason that you talk yourself into feeling good about because Panhellenic is forcing you to make these drastic cuts. There can be legitimate connection between a PNM and an active, but the PNM is cut simply because they have to make a certain amount of cuts, and there were more PNMs that they liked better for one reason or another. This is a problem that "popular" chapters face: how to find what you are looking for after only one party. They can choose based on whatever criteria they want, but they still must make those cuts.

Also, about suiciding. Your daughter wasn't "forced" to suicide; in fact, she was probably encouraged to list all of her preference chapters. Some campuses also have a "guaranteed matching" policy--if they have at least one preference invite, and rank all preference chapters they attended, Panhellenic will guarantee they will be matched to one of those chapters. If a large number of PNMs suicide, there will be more unmatched women, so it is discouraged. Women who suicide can and do get bids often, but it makes the PNM question, "If it came down to my second or third choice, would I rather have them or not be Greek?"

Even if your daughter feels she would have been a better fit elsewhere, encourage her to try to like her group she is pledging. She won't have a chance to pledge anywhere else until next year anyway. She might just find that she couldn't imagine herself anywhere else.

[KSUViolet06]

Also keep in mind that this is UGA we're talking about. A PNMs best chance of getting a bid is as a first semester freshman. Your daughter might think she could just drop out and rush again next year, but her chance of getting a bid will decrease significantly next year (as a sophomore).

[Lightning Bug!]

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

Don't you think there are ways for surveys to be taken by the PNM's to better educate the houses on who is coming to rush and to better match them with girls they are interviewed by? Obviously using resumes does not do it.

Probably...this sort of thing would take a lot of research (as to the best way to do it) and organization...I would guess that UGA Panhellenic would need to come up with a proposal for something like this, based on some solid evidence in which a similar system was tested, perhaps by researchers who study interview techniques...then UGA Panhellenic would need to confer with the nationals and with university lawyers to make sure everything was fair to all parties involved and that all the nationals agreed to it...then they'd have to figure out how to execute it...it's hard enough to match up 1300 PMNs to 180 sisters for 4 rounds of parties, just based on things like hometowns and majors, and also to ensure that the PNMs meet multiple sisters...adding in these questionnaires would require Panhellenic to sort and copy and distribute the questionnaires to the sororites, THEN the sororities would have to go through 1300-1550 questionnaires and match them up with a possible line up of sisters to take them through FOUR rounds of rush...this is a lot of organization, when they also are getting ready with decorations and songs AND just getting ready for class! So I encourage your daughter to get involved with UGA's Panhel...just don't expect this to be an easy fix!

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

My daughter had hundreds of hours of service work in a variety of organizations, she had recs from everyone.

So do we all...

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

11 houses in one day is ridiculous. These girls went home and went to bed and still were completely exhaused by day 3 and 4. They can't "perform" to their best when put in that condition.

Of course not! But Panhel is working off of the premise that it's better to get it over with than to drag the whole thing out...maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but again, this isn't a quick fix!

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

If only you knew the hours of tears.

I do.

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?

Of course they can be wicked...I can tell horrible tales about sorority recruitment...and so can my mother...and so can my grandmother...this isn't a new thing. There are girls dismissed for terrible reasons...there also are girls dismissed simply because they didn't stand out...and when you are going through a quick recruitment, that is a perfectly good reason to cut someone. As I said before, I agree with you that improvements could be made to help those girls who are charming, lovely, talented, and fun but don't have friends pulling for them inside the house or don't perhaps make the best first impression, because of shyness or whatever...but it is a BIG JOB fixing problems like these, and it doesn't happen overnight...but your daughter can be part of the solution, as can YOU...you say you have experience with the Greek system from 30 years ago...are you an alumna? Can you get in touch with your headquarters and express your concerns and see if they have some sort of task force to study recruitment?

Anyway, you clearly are tired and stressed out, so I don't think there is any point in responding further...I agree with you about most of what you say, but it isn't as if a clear solution is staring us all in the face, but we're just choosing to reject it...

Oh, and many apologies 1) that you felt attacked, and 2) that you felt we didn't provide the solutions you were seeking. We don't have the answers, and we really are sorry for your stress. I hope that you are feeling better at the thought of how much fun your daughter must be having right now!

[estherjb]

I think one of the things that make cuts so hard is you never know why you were released and, being human, we usually assume it was something we did or didn't do. In reality it could one of any number of random and impersonal things such as the time of night your name comes up or if the girl who is pushing for you is influential enough to get you through over another member's rush crush. I've seen too many stand out girls get cut and too many "slip throughs" get in not to believe there's an element of the bizarre in the selection process.

[ree-Xi]

No matter the size of the PNM group, the number of chapters, quota, etc., there will always be a contingency of women who A. don't get their first choice, or B. don't get ANY bids.

In terms of getting one's "first choice" and lamenting that there wasn't enough time for the chapter to get to know your (the general your, not you particularly) fabulous daughter - think about it in the reverse.

What are the standards by which any PNM selects one or two chapters as "her top choices"? Surely there are superficial reasons or limited knowledge that goes into choosing their favorites. I am sure that the Members have just as difficult a decision making THEIR choices. Who one person may see as the perfect PNM, another (or many) may not have had the chance to experience the same. The same thing goes for a girl whom only one has met yet feels strongly about - what if the girl isn't really that chapter's material? Who knows if your daughter really did fit into her first choice? Other than her perceptions, were they really that much of a fit?

Not saying that your daughter does not measure up to the "most beautiful", popular, social group on campus - if that is what her her deam chapter is made of, but how much alike are they really? When it comes down to it, are they similar when it comes to the little things? In my experience, that's what counts!

Before freaking out that your daughter got the shaft by not getting her first choice - and we all agree that NO system is perfect - think about the promise of joy and sisterhood ahead of your daughter. Reality is mostly one's perception.

I hope that your daughter finds happiness in her new home, and that you can allow yourself to be happy that a group really wanted her so badly over maybe hundreds of other girls!

[aopinthesky]

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?

Greek Stress,
I, too, am from greek life of 30 years ago. However I am still involved with AOII as a volunteer so perhaps that is why your daughter's story seems very positive to me when you seem to think her experience was so negative. Things are a LOT different than when we went through "rush" and I, for one, say bring it on. As time goes on and the new release figures take hold, I believe that we will see fewer chapters close due to numbers and more women placed during recruitments.
I disagree that girls are dropped from chapters for brainless, rude reasons. I have been to membership selection for many years and I can tell you that there is much more thought and care put into who is chosen than there ever was when I was a collegiate. The system is so much stronger and stands for so much more than it did in the 70's and 80's that most women from those years wouldn't recognize their own chapters. Moreover, I think they would be proud of what those chapters have become. I urge you to get involved in your own sorority or your daughter's and see for yourself how it is on "this side". It ain't easy. And I wish your daughter all the happiness in the world in her new home. I am sure she will blossom there.

[GreekAlphaSoup]

Very good points, AOPintheySky. Just from what I gathered this week as well, they are MUCH more thoughtful and kind than I remember from our days. Flashback....remember "cut sessions" - remember shouts of "top girl!" and "rush her hard!" or the dreaded, and only used in matters of dire necessity because it could blackball someone for life "Questionable Rep!". Cut sessions were brutal...fast forward 30 years and you could hear a pin drop on the upstairs floor when the girls were voting, or it you listened at the doorway of a dining room, not a sound was uttered. The girls are sincerely working hard to do the best job possible. And they take their responsibilities very seriously.

While I can agree with Greek Stress that girls can be "wicked", and brutal and unkind, that is certainly not unique to Greek girls....I learned it from years of working in the educational system....not to mention my teen years and those of my 3 daughters. Painful, true! So, while I am sure it happens, it is on the QT, not out in the open (I believe.)

I'm sure Panhel is trying to bring out the best in all our women.....us included!