McCain pledging to NAACP more education options

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

This is a complete 180 for John McCain. Prior to this, he has said that education is not a priority to him. I guess "flip flop" isn't bad when it's a republican.

Flip flop has been used previously about Republicans. Let's not make that term into a party thing, both parties have been more than thrilled to use the term.

[AKA_Monet]

IDK... Sound a tad bit affirmative actiony to me... LOL.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Flip flop has been used previously about Republicans. Let's not make that term into a party thing, both parties have been more than thrilled to use the term.

I think the term's ridiculous, actually. Was only half-serious in using it.

[DeltAlum]

"Plans" always sound good during an election.

Follow-up and execution often leave a lot to be desired.

I suspect that our education problems are a lot deeper than a single "plan" can help very much.

I'm sure Senator Obama has a "plan" as well.

"No Child Left Behind" has (had?) a real nice ring to it, but my wife (a now former teacher) and almost all of her teacher and administrator friends think it is (was?) a disaster.

I'm not real impressed with comments made on the campaign trail.

Still, we've got to begin somewhere.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

I'm not real impressed with comments made on the campaign trail.

So I am not the only one with a feeling of ennui in regards to what this looming election is producing so far?

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

"No Child Left Behind" has (had?) a real nice ring to it, but my wife (a now former teacher) and almost all of her teacher and administrator friends think it is (was?) a disaster.

The "all children left out" program instituted statewide testing in order to graduate high schools and in addition to being used as a tool for acceptance into college. The issue is that these tests (in my state) does not adequately test students knowledge in several areas, such as math and science. The other issue is several students who attend schools in disparate locales cannot pass this test because of ill-preparedness, and lack of command of the English language, etc. Some students have learning disabilities and right now the time and questions on the test do not allow them to be sufficient to pass in order to graduate.

And now, the military requires a high school diploma to enlist. A GED--so I heard--is no longer acceptable... Something to do with billion dollar training and equipment...

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

The "all children left out" program instituted statewide testing in order to graduate high schools and in addition to being used as a tool for acceptance into college.

It's my opinion that the best thing that can be said for standardized tests is that they're controversial -- and that's being real kind.

But hey, if a good percentage of students pass the tests, we're doing good -- whether or not they learn anything except how to pass the tests by rote and really don't gain any knowledge of the subject.

Right?

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

It's my opinion that the best thing that can be said for standardized tests is that they're controversial -- and that's being real kind.

But hey, if a good percentage of students pass the tests, we're doing good -- whether or not they learn anything except how to pass the tests by rote and really don't gain any knowledge of the subject.

Right?

LOL That is the way they said one has mastered the subject at hand!!! For some tests it is not fair. For others, well, that's the only way to really know. I know I would want my physicians to have passed their board exams when they put me under anesthesia. And the same to my pilots and few other professions.

But for little kids, test passing is somewhat retarded. And for older kids-junior/senior high school aged, a life and death situational test seems rather too much when they have not been taught the ramifications of their actions. And in poor schools, they only learn their ramifications before a judge.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

The "all children left out" program instituted statewide testing in order to graduate high schools and in addition to being used as a tool for acceptance into college. The issue is that these tests (in my state) does not adequately test students knowledge in several areas, such as math and science. The other issue is several students who attend schools in disparate locales cannot pass this test because of ill-preparedness, and lack of command of the English language, etc. Some students have learning disabilities and right now the time and questions on the test do not allow them to be sufficient to pass in order to graduate.

And now, the military requires a high school diploma to enlist. A GED--so I heard--is no longer acceptable... Something to do with billion dollar training and equipment...

This year's class was the first to be held accountable for passing the WASL, and the vast majority have. The only subjects they had to pass by this year was reading and writing (math isn't until 2013), and there is no testing time limit. Students get many chances over several years to pass it. If they can't pass the minimums of the WASL, particularly reading and writing, they shouldn't graduate. A high school diploma should certify a student has met certain standards of education.

ETA: if we were in some European countries, our kids' entire working lives would be dictated by the results of high school testing. In Germany, for instance, if you don't do well enough on high school exams, you don't get to go to college - you go into the vocational tract instead. University tract is only for the most high-performing kids.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

This year's class was the first to be held accountable for passing the WASL, and the vast majority have. The only subjects they had to pass by this year was reading and writing (math isn't until 2013), and there is no testing time limit. Students get many chances over several years to pass it. If they can't pass the minimums of the WASL, particularly reading and writing, they shouldn't graduate. A high school diploma should certify a student has met certain standards of education.

ETA: if we were in some European countries, our kids' entire working lives would be dictated by the results of high school testing. In Germany, for instance, if you don't do well enough on high school exams, you don't get to go to college - you go into the vocational tract instead. University tract is only for the most high-performing kids.

But the math requirement was shifted later than before and there is huge concern about the schools with huge ethnic groups, namely Latino, Native American and the 1-2 African Americans that attend the top 3 high schools: Cleveland, Garfield and Franklin.

At some point, yes, OUR kids need to meet minimum requirements for a high school diploma. But OUR kids have several OTHER vital programs that many other states do not have--such as the "community service" requirement of 50(?) hours over 4 years and other issues.

Votech for some reason is ruled out. I don't understand that. ALL kids shoulc have vocational/technical training for back-up to at least have a job skills.

The other issue is the Contiguous US is 5000 miles wide compared to smaller countries in Europe. Our per capita is higher than what they have. Very few other countries have similar "diverse" populations as we have in the US. Making the US unique and one of the best places to live and thrive. Yeah, folks say crap to yah, but that does not stop someone from succeeding unless they have committed and convicted a felony... The problem is most of these kids in poor schools have problems leading to felony convictions.

And when you ask some Europeans the real deal--like the US's right to bear arms, they don't have it. Has nothing to do with this discussion. But the problem is you really think a gang-banger was taught proper gun handling technique when he/she got caught with a concealed weapon under 17 years of age???

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

But the math requirement was shifted later than before and there is huge concern about the schools with huge ethnic groups, namely Latino, Native American and the 1-2 African Americans that attend the top 3 high schools: Cleveland, Garfield and Franklin.

At some point, yes, OUR kids need to meet minimum requirements for a high school diploma. But OUR kids have several OTHER vital programs that many other states do not have--such as the "community service" requirement of 50(?) hours over 4 years and other issues.

Votech for some reason is ruled out. I don't understand that. ALL kids shoulc have vocational/technical training for back-up to at least have a job skills.

The other issue is the Contiguous US is 5000 miles wide compared to smaller countries in Europe. Our per capita is higher than what they have. Very few other countries have similar "diverse" populations as we have in the US. Making the US unique and one of the best places to live and thrive. Yeah, folks say crap to yah, but that does not stop someone from succeeding unless they have committed and convicted a felony... The problem is most of these kids in poor schools have problems leading to felony convictions.

And when you ask some Europeans the real deal--like the US's right to bear arms, they don't have it. Has nothing to do with this discussion. But the problem is you really think a gang-banger was taught proper gun handling technique when he/she got caught with a concealed weapon under 17 years of age???

I'm not sure where gun control fits in with this. But anyway...

I'm guessing you're talking about just the Seattle School District? But even so, those aren't even the best schools in the district (other than Garfield). Seattle School District has a whole slew of problems that most other districts in the state can't relate to, which is why I don't think it makes sense for education to be monitored at the federal level. The school district I grew up in (Bellevue School District), is just across the lake from Seattle, yet the districts couldn't be any more different. No Child Left Behind, and the WASL, may be giving a boost to Seattle schools, but it's probably been a detriment to my alma mater, which has goals set far above those of the WASL. And I worry about schools like mine that would likely be impacted (negatively) if certain Seattle schools are declared beyond repair.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

"Plans" always sound good during an election.

Follow-up and execution often leave a lot to be desired.

I suspect that our education problems are a lot deeper than a single "plan" can help very much.

I'm sure Senator Obama has a "plan" as well.

"No Child Left Behind" has (had?) a real nice ring to it, but my wife (a now former teacher) and almost all of her teacher and administrator friends think it is (was?) a disaster.

I'm not real impressed with comments made on the campaign trail.

Still, we've got to begin somewhere.

That's interesting - I have relatives and friends who are teachers who think NCLB has had a positive impact, if for no other reason than to get discussion going on better teaching techniques.

I guess it depends on who you ask...

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

That's interesting - I have relatives and friends who are teachers who think NCLB has had a positive impact, if for no other reason than to get discussion going on better teaching techniques.

I guess it depends on who you ask...

It probably depends on the district/state the teacher is in. A poor performing school that could only go up has probably seen improvement due to state testing. On the other hand, a traditionally overachieving school that is now forced to "teach to the test" instead of its proven curriculum, probably won't feel as warm to it.

[Educatingblue]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

"Plans" always sound good during an election.

Follow-up and execution often leave a lot to be desired.

I suspect that our education problems are a lot deeper than a single "plan" can help very much.

I'm sure Senator Obama has a "plan" as well.

"No Child Left Behind" has (had?) a real nice ring to it, but my wife (a now former teacher) and almost all of her teacher and administrator friends think it is (was?) a disaster.

I'm not real impressed with comments made on the campaign trail.

Still, we've got to begin somewhere.

Good point! I am not really impressed with either candidates stance on education. I understand there are more important things to discuss/debate...I guess people fail to realize education/economy/housing etc are intertwined. I know this is below the belt, but I bet people who are losing their homes due to foreclosure right now wish they had a better understanding of math (interest rates) and reading comprehension