Science and Religion

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Then again you may think that Columbus actually convinced Ferdinand and Isabella that the world was actually round and that this was a revolutionary idea. If so, I'm sorry.

Very true -- it was hardly a revolutionary idea, nor were Galileo's discoveries "radical." Pythagorus, Plato and Aristotle all taught that the earth was spherical. Eratosthenes did a pretty good job of estimating the Earth's circumference sometime around 240 BC. In the second century AD, Claudius Ptolomy plotted the Earth as a globe complete with latitudinal lines measured from the equator and longitudinal lines.

What Galileo brought to the table -- actually what Copernicus brought to the table -- was scientific support for the idea that the sun, not the Earth, was at the center.

And yet we still tend to think a little bit like the folks back in Genesis. Funny how we all know that it's the Earth that rotates and moves around the sun, but we still talk about the sun rising and setting, as though the sun is the thing that's moving. Interesting how we find no conflict with that traditional, even slightly poetic, way of thinking about it and what we know from science actually happens.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Pythagorus, Plato and Aristotle all taught that the earth was spherical. Eratosthenes did a pretty good job of estimating the Earth's circumference sometime around 240 BC. In the second century AD, Claudius Ptolomy plotted the Earth as a globe complete with latitudinal lines measured from the equator and longitudinal lines.

Yep, you forgot to mention Herodotus though. Herodotus pondered this idea too. It was both Pythagoras and Herodotus that pondered that idea. Yep, Arisostle summarized several arguments in support of that view. One of them was based on lunar eclipses. Every now and then, the Moon as it orbits Earth, intercepts the cone shaped shadow that Earth casts in space. Aristotle noted, Earth's shadow on the Moon was always circular. For that to be true, Earth had to be a sphere, because only spheres cast circular shadows via all light sources, from all angles, at all times. If Earth were a flat disk like some people actually still believe to this very day, the shadow would sometimes be oval. And some other times, when Earth's edge faced the Sun, the shadow would be a thin line. Only when the Earth was face on to the Sun would it's shadow cast a circle.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

In the second century AD, Claudius Ptolomy plotted the Earth as a globe complete with latitudinal lines measured from the equator and longitudinal lines.

The crazy thing about this is you would think cartographers would have made a spherical model of Earth within the next few centuries. But no. I could be wrong, but I think the earliest known terrestrial globe didn't appear until somewhere around 1490-92.

[dekeguy]

Perhaps I take a somewhat simplistic approach, but I never could see a problem between "science and religion". One can split hairs on the nuances of meanings of words, but for me the word science derives from the Latin infinitive "scire" rendered in the first person active as "scio" (I know). So it would seem to me that the word science indicates knowledge. Religion to me is the structured practice of demonstrable faith. Not the faith itself but the structured expression of it. Now, it seems to me that God reveals Himself to us as we are capable of understanding Him. He doesn't change, our ability to understand and grasp His nature develops as we as a species mature and develop. The question now arises what has changed since we have made great strides in knowledge (science)? Nothing. Does God exist? I firmly believe that He does. Do we understand His nature better than we did 200, 500, 1000, 2000 years ago and so on? I think we do. Do we fully understand the nature of God? Well, I sure don't, but faith is the trail I follow as we become more capable of a fuller understanding. So if I take a more comprehensive view perhaps science plus faith results in that wonderful Greek word "Sophia" (wisdom)! As a Jesuit trained Roman Catholic I remember some of the things that I was taught back in school that were and are important to me, among which were:
"There are only two great commandments, first love the Lord with your whole heart, soul, and being. Second, love your neighbor as yourself"
and, "When God gave you a brain, don't you suppose He had in mind that you do something with it".
If you are so inclined you might take a look at "The Phenomenon of Man" by
Pierre Theillard deChardin.
Anyway, I would sum up my thoughts as "Dominus vobiscum omnes, scio, creo, Catholicus sum, Te Deum laudamus".

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

The crazy thing about this is you would think cartographers would have made a spherical model of Earth within the next few centuries. But no. I could be wrong, but I think the earliest known terrestrial globe didn't appear until somewhere around 1490-92.

http://www.1worldglobes.com/earthglobe.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globe#Manufacture

c. 150 BC

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

http://www.1worldglobes.com/earthglobe.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globe#Manufacture

c. 150 BC

Thanks Drolefille. Great info, but I was actually speaking of the earliest known terrestrial globe still in existence, which if not mistaken I think it was somewhere around the 1490s.