Plegdes wearing letters???

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by pbear19

That's exactly the point I was trying to make in my post, why we never used the 'new member' terminology when the word 'pledge' was dropped. In a way they were still potential new members, even though they had been given a bid. Potential members, prospective members, aspiring members, etc. But not members, and therefore not 'new' members.

ETA - in our case, after we stopped calling them pledges, we called them Taus.

You might want to specify ( again - I know you did in your original post) that you are not referring to Gamma Phi Beta, which does indeed refer to what were "pledges" as "new members"(www.gammaphibeta.org) , but to Tau Lamda.

[pbear19]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

You might want to specify ( again - I know you did in your original post) that you are not referring to Gamma Phi Beta, which does indeed refer to what were "pledges" as "new members"(www.gammaphibeta.org) , but to Tau Lamda.

Sorry, I should have specified again so there wouldn't be confusion. Definitely I was only referring to TLS, since that is the organization that I had first hand knowledge of in college.

[SWTXBelle]

I was confused at first, then went back and re-read your previous post - it was clear to me, but since you list Gamma Phi first in your signature . . .

[breathesgelatin]

So to tally up based on my question:

NPCs that allow new members to wear letters but not the crest (or maybe it would be better to say display the crest):

AEPhi
ASA
AST

Ones that allow letters and crest:

Pi Phi (never heard anything differently anyway)

Anyone else want to contribute to this list? I had never heard about the letters-not-crest thing and find it fascinating.

[aephi alum]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

So to tally up based on my question:

NPCs that allow new members to wear letters but not the crest (or maybe it would be better to say display the crest):

AEPhi
ASA
AST

It's the other way around, for AEPhi. Our new members cannot wear letters (per national policy) but our new member pin is the crest with the Greek letters removed.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by aephi alum

It's the other way around, for AEPhi. Our new members cannot wear letters (per national policy) but our new member pin is the crest with the Greek letters removed.

Ah, I think I completely misread your initial post. Sorry about that.

NPCs that allow letters, not crests, for NMs:

AST
ASA
G Phi B (I think I gathered that..?)
KD
Sigma Kappa


NPCs that allow crests, not letters, for NMs:

AEPhi

NPCs that allow both:

Pi Phi

FWIW, I agree with preciousjeni. I think that for the most part insisting that allowing letters vs. crests is all a matter of semantics. As is "new member" vs. "pledge."

I think the salient point for me is that some chapter were doing things in the past like "making pledges earn their letters" by hazing and that's why disallowing letters for NMs was done away with. I've never heard of hazing justified by "making pledges earn their crest," so it's less of a hot-button issue.

[SWTXBelle]

I would be interested in knowing when the question of letters became an issue. Certainly those NPC groups formed in the 19th and early 20th centuries could never have imagined their members wearing T SHIRTS as outerwear!!! The pledge pin and member's badge were really the only early insignia. And breathesgelatin, do you know when crests were adopted for NPCs? (paging oldu - I bet he'd know!)
It seems that lettered jerseys hit around - maybe the 50s? Late 40s?

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Just my take after re-reading your posts.

breathesgelatin essentially said what I've been trying to get across, but she put it more succinctly.

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

FWIW, I agree with preciousjeni. I think that for the most part insisting that allowing letters vs. crests is all a matter of semantics. As is "new member" vs. "pledge."

I think the salient point for me is that some chapter were doing things in the past like "making pledges earn their letters" by hazing and that's why disallowing letters for NMs was done away with. I've never heard of hazing justified by "making pledges earn their crest," so it's less of a hot-button issue.

ETA: I'm calling the hazing laws and such - that have forced Greeks orgs to enact the logically inconsistent policies - "insane" and "ridiculous," not the policies themselves. If we weren't such a litigious society, I believe we could have much more successfully separated the true hazing from the organizational traditions. ALL Greeks are affected which is why I'm so concerned about it.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Ah, I think I completely misread your initial post. Sorry about that.

NPCs that allow letters, not crests, for NMs:

AST
ASA
G Phi B (I think I gathered that..?)
KD
Sigma Kappa

Actually, I think that now our NMs might be allowed to wear the crest as well. (I was just explaining why we allowed letters and why a crest might not be allowed - not necessarily that this is our current, official policy) But seeing, as I said, that most crest sweatshirts are really expensive now (and the ones I saw from our official vendor were pretty butt ugly) it's kind of a moot point.