Congrats to Michelle Obama

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

With all due respect I completely disagree. The very first sentence in my original post states that I believe these stereotypes exist on a college level. If you have graduated from college then I think you pretty much prove the point of my message that these stereotypes only exist at the collegiate level and that upon graduation they do become indistinguishable from each other. Indistinguishable might be the wrong word for this forum because we all know they have intricate histories, morals, philanthropies, etc but I mean indistinguishable to the average American...saying that you are a Theta vs. a Pi Phi vs. a AST vs. a Gamma Phi really has no difference.

However, I do feel like there are a select group of organizations that on the college level do have national stereotypes. Nowhere near as developed as the NPHC stereotypes, and lacking all the positive elements as well, but they do exist. For most organizations you'll hear the gamut of negative stereotypes depending on the campus..."they are prude", "they party too hard", "they are fake-tan/fake-blonde types"...it will change. However, I feel with the sororities and fraternities I have mentioned the things said are 95% of the time the same from campus to campus (and when they are not said, it is usually because they are a struggling chapter on campus in which the stereotype would become "XYZs are low on numbers here...but everywhere else they are like this".)

Once again, if you are not in college, or are in a college with a smaller Greek community, you probably are not hearing these or they simply don't matter enough to register. This proves my point that after college these stereotypes have no bearing in the Greek community. However, I do believe that most students from schools with big Greek communities in California, Texas, Florida, deep south and parts of the Mid-West know more or less what I'm talking about.

Lastly, I don't believe these stereotypes are true. I do however believe that they are frequently put upon chapters even if those chapters have no relation to the stereotype. I also feel that these are probably new and are so widespread thanks to the types of networking sites like Facebook, MySpace, JuicyCampus, Old Row, etc.

I can see networking sites influencing the general stereotypes of what "sorority girls" are like but I don't think it's reinforcing types within individual groups. And honestly, are you making a claim that JuicyCampus* evaluations should be regarded are reality? Really?

Even when I was in school, the reputations of groups varied considerable from campus to campus for the NPC groups. I think looking through any group's magazine usually puts the fake tan/fake blond thing to rest for any particular org.

Where are you geographically? How big are the greek systems with which you are most familiar?

I think it's possible that within regions, stereotypes may be more likely, but even then, more than one group will occupy very similar niches, so you can't really say how one group is supposedly different from another.

* as far as Old Row, someone even geekier than I am could probably look at all their sorority rankings and see, but I think there's some variety even there.

ETA: maybe I'm totally misreading you. Are you saying that based on networking sites, stereotypes which have no connection to reality are emerging rather than claiming that actual somewhat-reality-based-reputations or expectations exist for groups on a national level? Like, "people on JuicyCampus say that XYZ are barbie doll party girls so now everyone believes it"?

[APhiAnna]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Nope. I can see networking sites influencing the general stereotypes of what "sorority girls" are like but I don't think it's reinforcing types within individual groups. And honestly, are you making a claim that JuicyCampus* evaluations should be regarded are reality? Really?

Even when I was in school, the reputations of groups varied considerable from campus to campus for the NPC groups. I think looking through any group's magazine usually puts the fake tan/fake blond thing to rest for any particular org.

Where are you geographically? How big are the greek systems with which you are most familiar?

I think it's possible that within regions, stereotypes may be more likely, but even then, more than one group will occupy very similar niches, so you can't really say how one group is supposedly different from another.

* as far as Old Row, someone even geekier than I am could probably look at all their sorority rankings and see, but I think there's some variety even there.

I don't believe JuicyCampus or Old Row evaluations should be taken seriously in the slightest. However, it is interesting that for most GLOs very different things will be said depending on the campus but for a select few you consistently hear the same things. And, for those specific posts, they mirror things I consistently hear in real life.

I agree very much with regionality, especially since some GLOs will be very present in a specific area of the country with considerable alum support. I think what I am talking about goes a little bit beyond that.

However, I cannot disagree more about those three not having some sort of national stereotype amongst collegians. I am in college as of this moment. I have friends literally across the country in all different tiers of Greek life. For most GLOs I hear very different stereotypes. For those three I consistently hear similar ones. For example, I have four friends who are XYZs (one of the three I mentioned earlier). One is unquestionably top tier, two are very middle of the road and one is struggling to the point they are considered the "least desirable". To give a geographic idea, one is in the Northeast, one in Florida, one in California, one in Texas. Granted, all four are "big Greek" schools. All four have the same exact stereotype attached to them. This is not the case with the vast majority of GLOs, as I have several friends who are in the same sororities whose stereotypes on campus vary widely. But for those three I feel that at least a portion of that stereotype is usually assigned to a chapter no matter it's "tier". Very similar to how much of the time, for example, Pike is labeled as athletic no matter what "tier" it is in on campus, where it is located or if they are even slightly athletic in the first place...the Pikes I know can barely throw a football and are still somehow labeled the "jock/meathead" guys.

Once again, maybe people disagree. But I go to a school with a very strong Greek community. The overwhelming majority of my friends picked schools with strong Greek communities. And about those three GLOs I consistently hear the same things from college students (never alums) about their stereotype on campus. Doesn't matter what tier they are, it definitely doesn't matter if it's true or not (usually it's not) but I hear the same exact things regardless.

[APhiAnna]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

ETA: maybe I'm totally misreading you. Are you saying that based on networking sites, stereotypes which have no connection to reality are emerging rather than claiming that actual somewhat-reality-based-reputations or expectations exist for groups on a national level? Like, "people on JuicyCampus say that XYZ are barbie doll party girls so now everyone believes it"?

I think you are and I'm afraid maybe I was not clear. I'm not talking about "tiers"...people certainly don't say that "XYZ is the best everywhere" and "ABC is consistently bad" because that's never the case. Maybe in some regions XYZ is usually strong but even then I think people see the distinction.

I also am not saying characteristics like "all XYZs are hot". I'm talking about characteristics that are more subtle that can be assigned to any chapter even if they are the "bottom of the totem pole" so to speak. I think the best examples I can give you without saying specifically what I mean would be mirror images of some IFC fraternities...ie, Pike usually seen as athletic, KA as having southern traditions (even a California chapter I know is labeled like that!), etc. You can throw that at the top chapter at campus and you can throw that at the struggling chapters. I think those three sororities have similar characteristics that can be used no matter how the chapter stands in college culture. I don't think JuicyCampus, etc is causing it, but rather reflecting it.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

Maybe in some regions XYZ is usually strong but even then I think people see the distinction....ie, Pike usually seen as athletic, KA as having southern traditions (even a California chapter I know is labeled like that!), etc.

I agree with this...

In my opinion, it comes more from the Headquarters and how they approach each chapter than just appearing out of nowhere. For example, Pikes have a program called SLAG...Students, Leaders, Athletes, Generals or whatever.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

I think you are and I'm afraid maybe I was not clear. I'm not talking about "tiers"...people certainly don't say that "XYZ is the best everywhere" and "ABC is consistently bad" because that's never the case. Maybe in some regions XYZ is usually strong but even then I think people see the distinction.

I also am not saying characteristics like "all XYZs are hot". I'm talking about characteristics that are more subtle that can be assigned to any chapter even if they are the "bottom of the totem pole" so to speak. I think the best examples I can give you without saying specifically what I mean would be mirror images of some IFC fraternities...ie, Pike usually seen as athletic, KA as having southern traditions (even a California chapter I know is labeled like that!), etc. You can throw that at the top chapter at campus and you can throw that at the struggling chapters. I think those three sororities have similar characteristics that can be used no matter how the chapter stands in college culture. I don't think JuicyCampus, etc is causing it, but rather reflecting it.

Did you name the three or just three that you can think of?

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Did you name the three or just three that you can think of?

She named Kappa, ZTA, and Tri-Delt.

APhiAnna, I think we're going to agree to disagree because I think you're just plain wrong. And it's not because I'm from a small Greek system or don't have a wide experience with Greek life.

[APhiAnna]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

She named Kappa, ZTA, and Tri-Delt.

APhiAnna, I think we're going to agree to disagree because I think you're just plain wrong. And it's not because I'm from a small Greek system or don't have a wide experience with Greek life.

Same sentiments exactly. I understand that most people at GreekChat (wisely) choose to avoid talking about stereotypes but I am really shocked that people don't get what I'm talking about (or at least current college students). I think literally any of my friends that are Greek, and several that aren't, would understand where I am coming from when I say that. Once again, I am not condoning those stereotypes and I think they are false in most cases, but I do see certain labels being put on those three sororities at several schools no matter what "tier" they are, the region of the country they are in or the reality of the type of women they attract.

But I can tell neither one of us will change their mind. Especially since this is so completely off-topic I think "agreeing to disagree" is probably the best course of action.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

I think you are and I'm afraid maybe I was not clear. I'm not talking about "tiers"...people certainly don't say that "XYZ is the best everywhere" and "ABC is consistently bad" because that's never the case. Maybe in some regions XYZ is usually strong but even then I think people see the distinction.

I also am not saying characteristics like "all XYZs are hot". I'm talking about characteristics that are more subtle that can be assigned to any chapter even if they are the "bottom of the totem pole" so to speak. I think the best examples I can give you without saying specifically what I mean would be mirror images of some IFC fraternities...ie, Pike usually seen as athletic, KA as having southern traditions (even a California chapter I know is labeled like that!), etc. You can throw that at the top chapter at campus and you can throw that at the struggling chapters. I think those three sororities have similar characteristics that can be used no matter how the chapter stands in college culture. I don't think JuicyCampus, etc is causing it, but rather reflecting it.

Sorry to you both. I was just looking at this one when I asked about which groups. I didn't go back and look.

I mean you APhiAnna and Breathesgelatin, who had to do my reading for me.

Yeah, I'll go with agree to disagree with APhiAnna about national images and reputations. Stereotype, I suppose is arguable since it wouldn't actually have to be based on any real similarity at all, but in may be a question of how many perceptions count to make a national reputation, image or stereotype.

[APhiAnna]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Sorry to you both. I was just looking at this one when I asked about which groups. I didn't go back and look.

I mean you APhiAnna and Breathesgelatin, who had to do my reading for me.

Yeah, I'll go with agree to disagree with APhiAnna about national images and reputations. Stereotype, I suppose is arguable since it wouldn't actually have to be based on any real similarity at all, but in may be a question of how many perceptions count to make a national reputation, image or stereotype.

Just to clarify I'm only arguing stereotypes. National image is taken into account by the population as a whole, as well as people who are familiar with GLOs. In both cases GLOs will have a varied image because of chapter variations. I think this is the accurate point of view. Stereotypes, in my opinion, are 95% fostered by collegiate Greeks simply because nobody else really cares who is old money, who is fat, who is slutty, etc. And, as I've argued, amongst collegiate Greeks I think there are a couple stereotypes that have jumped state lines and stuck to certain GLOs regardless of if the chapter meets the criteria for the stereotype or not. But I understand that many people apparently do not feel this way...I guess it's just differing of opinion.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

Just to clarify I'm only arguing stereotypes. National image is taken into account by the population as a whole, as well as people who are familiar with GLOs. In both cases GLOs will have a varied image because of chapter variations. I think this is the accurate point of view. Stereotypes, in my opinion, are 95% fostered by collegiate Greeks simply because nobody else really cares who is old money, who is fat, who is slutty, etc. And, as I've argued, amongst collegiate Greeks I think there are a couple stereotypes that have jumped state lines and stuck to certain GLOs regardless of if the chapter meets the criteria for the stereotype or not. But I understand that many people apparently do not feel this way...I guess it's just differing of opinion.

Actually, this post makes it sound like instead of arguing for national stereotypes you are actually stating that there are some regional, collegiate stereotypes. I would be far more likely to accept the idea of some isolated regional stereotypes than overall national ones in terms of NPCs.

[pinksirfidel]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Actually, this post makes it sound like instead of arguing for national stereotypes you are actually stating that there are some regional, collegiate stereotypes. I would be far more likely to accept the idea of some isolated regional stereotypes than overall national ones in terms of NPCs.

I couldn't agree with you more! Just compare some chapters in the North to the South... I have also found that many girls in NPCs buy into these "regional" stereotypes, and would agree to some degree that there may be "some" truth to it.

Regarding Michelle Obama, Congrats to her! I think it's silly to insist that AKA extend an invitation to Cindy McCain. Every organization has the right to choose who they would like to honor. This really doesn't have to be political. I would be happy for any woman who was extended the invitation of being an honorary member for any sorority. They had to have done something right!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by pinksirfidel

I couldn't agree with you more! Just compare some chapters in the North to the South... I have also found that many girls in NPCs buy into these "regional" stereotypes, and would agree to some degree that there may be "some" truth to it.

Regarding Michelle Obama, Congrats to her! I think it's silly to insist that AKA extend an invitation to Cindy McCain. Every organization has the right to choose who they would like to honor. This really doesn't have to be political. I would be happy for any woman who was extended the invitation of being an honorary member for any sorority. They had to have done something right!

I think it would be silly (for a lot of different reasons) to insist that they extend a membership to Cindy McCain too. Where have you read that people are saying that?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Actually, this post makes it sound like instead of arguing for national stereotypes you are actually stating that there are some regional, collegiate stereotypes. I would be far more likely to accept the idea of some isolated regional stereotypes than overall national ones in terms of NPCs.

Absolutely.