NPHC grade requirements?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by tld221

Sen handled it, AFAIC.

but there are JUST as many schools where NPHC chapters GPAs are the highest of all greek. Im speaking for what I hear of SGRho chapters who win those "highest Greek GPA" awards (or whatever that school's equivalent is). Im sure other D9 orgs here can make the same claim for more than a few of their chapters.

-tld221
--graduated with a 3.3, initiated as an UG and of a small chapter (but you knew this already)

It'd be interesting to know.

It's also interesting to think about why women's averages are typically higher than men's.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

It'd be interesting to know.

It's also interesting to think about why women's averages are typically higher than men's.

interesting to know what? why some NPHC chapters have the highest GPAs on campus and why others have the lowest?

and well there are way more women in college than men, right? well not WAY more, but id say the ration is something like 60/40? and sorority chapters tend to be bigger than fraternity chapters, right? annnnnnnnnnnd if we really wanna generalize, lets just say that men's majors lean more towards hard sciences and women's majors into humanities and that a 3.0 in sciences takes more work than a 3.0 in say, art history.

(the snark, btw, is not aimed at you, but the general GC population)

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by tld221

interesting to know what? why some NPHC chapters have the highest GPAs on campus and why others have the lowest?

and well there are way more women in college than men, right? well not WAY more, but id say the ration is something like 60/40? and sorority chapters tend to be bigger than fraternity chapters, right? annnnnnnnnnnd if we really wanna generalize, lets just say that men's majors lean more towards hard sciences and women's majors into humanities and that a 3.0 in sciences takes more work than a 3.0 in say, art history.

(the snark, btw, is not aimed at you, but the general GC population)

Well, it'd be interesting to know if there is in fact a trend one way of the other for groups and GPAs. It's possible that you are correct and that most organization end up with approximately the same number of chapters with excellent GPAs as they do with low-ish GPAs.

And that might suggest that what might be true about k-12 schooling generally doesn't play out for the people who join NPHCs. Or if what the OP observes is true on other campuses, it might be further evidence of the issues that exist k-12 even with the most motivated members of NPHCs. Who knows?

But it is interesting, I think.

The girl and guy difference is true for non-greeks and even in high school so the possible explanations you've raised may not fully explain it, but it's interesting to me to think about.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Well, it'd be interesting to know if there is in fact a trend one way of the other for groups and GPAs. It's possible that you are correct and that most organization end up with approximately the same number of chapters with excellent GPAs as they do with low-ish GPAs.

And that might suggest that what might be true about k-12 schooling generally doesn't play out for the people who join NPHCs. Or if what the OP observes is true on other campuses, it might be further evidence of the issues that exist k-12 even with the most motivated members of NPHCs. Who knows?

But it is interesting, I think.

The girl and guy difference is true for non-greeks and even in high school so the possible explanations you've raised may not fulling explain it, but it's interesting to me to think about.

this doesnt really make sense. countless times isnt it mentioned in NPC rush threads that HS GPAs can be a reflection of how a PNM would do her first year, but then again it be totally misleading? and that HS GPAs are used more often than not in bid selection?

and pray tell, what are these "issues" you speak of?

[AGDee]

You might also consider that NPHC members generally join later in their college career when classes are getting tougher. Freshman/Sophomore years are all basic studies and are pretty easy but as you get into upper level courses Junior and Senior year, grades can go down some. I don't know if this is documented, but I know it was true for me. It was much easier to get a 4.0 in Speech 101 (freshman year) than in Neuroanatomy, Anatomy, and Physiology(Junior year).

[tld221]

Originally Posted by AGDee

You might also consider that NPHC members generally join later in their college career when classes are getting tougher. Freshman/Sophomore years are all basic studies and are pretty easy but as you get into upper level courses Junior and Senior year, grades can go down some. I don't know if this is documented, but I know it was true for me. It was much easier to get a 4.0 in Speech 101 (freshman year) than in Neuroanatomy, Anatomy, and Physiology(Junior year).

also another good point, you expressed better than i wanted to.

and not that this reason is an excuse for poor grades, but smaller NPHC chapters make for resources being spread thin. ie. a chapter of 5, for example, has to attempt to do the work of what, at minimum 50-60 girls of an average NPC chapter to stay afloat. and often of that chapter of 5, some of those girls are involved with 50-11 other things on campus.

its never just classes, chapter, and partytime. grades get sacrificed often. and as mentioned above, law of averages.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AGDee

You might also consider that NPHC members generally join later in their college career when classes are getting tougher. Freshman/Sophomore years are all basic studies and are pretty easy but as you get into upper level courses Junior and Senior year, grades can go down some. I don't know if this is documented, but I know it was true for me. It was much easier to get a 4.0 in Speech 101 (freshman year) than in Neuroanatomy, Anatomy, and Physiology(Junior year).

So NPCs would get the GPA "cushion" of 1/4 to 1/2 of their members taking easier classes? That's an interesting idea.

ETA: It sort of seems like this effect would partially be canceled out by pledging people before they proved themselves academically, and now, I think the majority of NPCs even initiate before the first college grades are in. Does anyone know if the general college GPA trend is up or down as a student moves through classes? Major level classes are harder, but I think the students who are in them are usually serious enough to compensate with more hard work.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by tld221

this doesnt really make sense. countless times isnt it mentioned in NPC rush threads that HS GPAs can be a reflection of how a PNM would do her first year, but then again it be totally misleading? and that HS GPAs are used more often than not in bid selection?

and pray tell, what are these "issues" you speak of?

I wasn't referring so much to the grades students earn as the level of preparation they might have received. They may be linked, but in some cases even the most motivated students good-grade-making students in high school are held back by the level of classes offered at their schools. When they get to the next level (college), they find out that other high schools taught more and demanded more, and they find themselves behind.

(This can also happen in reverse. We can all think of people who say college was easier than high school, but I think it happens a lot less frequently than kids going off to college lacking some skills.)

There are some people who see fundamental differences in the educational opportunities offered to most white students k-12 and those offered to most minority students, particularly when you contrast majority white schools with majority black or Hispanic schools.

(It's may not be that the educational opportunities within schools are that different by race although you can find studies that suggest they are. It's that a gap can exist in what the schools offer their student to choose from.)

So, if it were true that a difference existed in greek groups' GPAs, it might be tied to the educational opportunities those students had before they arrived in college. And if there are general trends in educational opportunities that are tied to race and membership in certain groups is traditionally linked with race, it would not be entirely surprising to see a relationship of some kind.

Or it might just be that the kids at the OPs campus are slackers.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by tld221

this doesnt really make sense. countless times isnt it mentioned in NPC rush threads that HS GPAs can be a reflection of how a PNM would do her first year, but then again it be totally misleading? and that HS GPAs are used more often than not in bid selection?

and pray tell, what are these "issues" you speak of?

Oh, and yes NPCs look at GPAs for membership evaluation. And sometimes it turns out that a straight A high school kid can't do well with college level work, but I suspect that more often than not, good students continue to be good students and slackers continue to be slackers.

I also think that GPA is one of the areas in which NPC groups really like to compete to the level that it might affect individual behavior.

And if a group valued service or campus involvement more that being #1 in grades, then it would be hard to compete with the chapter that partially defined themselves by always being at the top of the GPA list.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Oh, and yes NPCs look at GPAs for membership evaluation. And sometimes it turns out that a straight A high school kid can't do well with college level work, but I suspect that more often than not, good students continue to be good students and slackers continue to be slackers.

I also think that GPA is one of the areas in which NPC groups really like to compete to the level that it might affect individual behavior.

And if a group valued service or campus involvement more that being #1 in grades, then it would be hard to compete with the chapter that partially defined themselves by always being at the top of the GPA list.

while being known as "the greek org with the highest GPA" is awesome, if the motivation is "because we win" and not because, well you want to get good grades anyway....

i kinda cant buy that. getting good grades takes effort and doesnt happen overnight. at the same time, early on, one blemish can totally screw up a GPA. lets say youre a frosh and youve got a near perfect first semester--a B+ screwed up your otherwise straight-A semester. but then you bomb out that second time around (unlikely, but lets say this student gets like D's and F's), that GPA drops to what, something under a 3.0? not bad i suppose, but youve gotta have a couple awesome semesters to catch up. as in, youd need to get straight A's for the next few semesters to get back up to what you had that first semester.

or it can happen in reverse: you bomb out first semester and then you play catch up for the next few semester to prove you can cut it.

and to make this circular, this froshie, with her 2.something in a house of 3.something-plus house may not affect the overall house GPA, but in a smaller chapter, surely.

[UGAalum94]

I think all NPC have ideals that value scholarship, so it's not contrary in any way for them to value getting good grades, but I do really think that for some chapters, GPA is really emphasized more than at others. And I think once you are number one, it's really hard to face falling to three or four, so the really competitive chapters may be less interested in a girl who is a "grade risk" during recruitment and then they start self selecting for high grades maybe more than other chapters.

(Although all chapters want girls with good grades, I think, and to be honest, the whole process kind of self selects for the same type of good-grade making, involved on campus type of person.)

And NPCs typically are bigger, so one or two girls aren't going to pull their average down that much, absolutely.

But you know, it seems like we're almost accepting that NPC grades would be higher when we really don't have conclusive evidence of that. That's what I mean about it generally being interesting. If it were true, these might be the reasons.

It might turn out that all NPHC groups have higher average GPAs nationally than the NPC and NIC groups. And it would be equally interesting to speculate about why that would be true. Would smaller chapters inspire a person to work harder in class because he or she is one of the few representatives of the group? Is it that the legacy of perseverance and triumph that some of the groups have inspires at a deep level? It it that only the academic creme de la creme join NPHCs, so the average high school experience by race doesn't matter? Is it that by joining later, you'd be more serious?

[MeezDiscreet]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Well, it'd be interesting to know if there is in fact a trend one way of the other for groups and GPAs. It's possible that you are correct and that most organization end up with approximately the same number of chapters with excellent GPAs as they do with low-ish GPAs.

And that might suggest that what might be true about k-12 schooling generally doesn't play out for the people who join NPHCs. Or if what the OP observes is true on other campuses, it might be further evidence of the issues that exist k-12 even with the most motivated members of NPHCs. Who knows?

But it is interesting, I think.

The girl and guy difference is true for non-greeks and even in high school so the possible explanations you've raised may not fully explain it, but it's interesting to me to think about.

Que?

Oh, and that's "Que" as in the Spanish word translating to "what" and not the suggestion that members of Omega Psi Phi, or "Ques", is the embodiment of what you suggest. (I went to a good high school )

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by MeezDiscreet

Que?


Oh, and that's "Que" as in the Spanish word translating to "what" and not the suggestion that members of Omega Psi Phi, or "Ques", is the embodiment of what you suggest. (I went to a good high school )

I'm all about continuing to talk about this but what "what" should I try to explain?

ETA: looking back, I think you may mean the guy and girl differences. At the high school level generally, and at the college level where I've see statistics reported, girls and women have higher average GPAs than boys and men do.
(I have no idea what this means for the transgendered.) There's getting to be a little push-back to schools being worried about gender equity for females by people who trot out these stats and suggest that maybe our current education methods are bad for boys. In my experience, girls are more interested in pleasing other people (probably because they are socially conditioned to), and I think grade differences are a reflection of this effort to please the teacher and their parents, and boys are probably learning about the same amount of stuff but don't care that much about the details that would lead to higher grades.