Sonics owner tells NBA he wants to move team to Oklahoma City

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by Rudey

???? What are you talking about???

I think there are "transparent" benefits for the image of a city to have a professional sports franchise that go beyond the dollars and cents that can be directly attributed the gate, consessions, parking, luxury boxes, tourism, etc.

Among them is the name mention on national and local sports, news, etc.

It's the proverbial publicity that money can't buy.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

I think there are "transparent" benefits for the image of a city to have a professional sports franchise that go beyond the dollars and cents that can be directly attributed the gate, consessions, parking, luxury boxes, tourism, etc.

Among them is the name mention on national and local sports, news, etc.

It's the proverbial publicity that money can't buy.

These things all have a literal dollar value that can be calculated by economists - it's actually a straight-forward process (and, as an aside, if you can't put a dollar value on it then it doesn't matter as far as the bond issues go).

Even accounting for these extra benefits, publicly-funded stadiums are generally a financial disaster for the city, and essentially account for every citizen paying for an incredibly rich ownership group to get richer.

You might want to check out some of the sports business resources out there - Maury Brown, for instance, does a great job at his site.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

These things all have a literal dollar value that can be calculated by economists - it's actually a straight-forward process (and, as an aside, if you can't put a dollar value on it then it doesn't matter as far as the bond issues go).

Even accounting for these extra benefits, publicly-funded stadiums are generally a financial disaster for the city, and essentially account for every citizen paying for an incredibly rich ownership group to get richer.

You might want to check out some of the sports business resources out there - Maury Brown, for instance, does a great job at his site.

I absolutely agree on the publicly funded stadium issue. It's kind of a reverse Robin Hood, taking money from the poor for the benefit of the rich.

Both of my brothers-in-law are attorneys (one is the former head of the Ohio Municipal League) who deal heavily in bond(s) and bond issues and my sister-in-law does as well with her Masters in City Administration. My other sister-in-law works for a firm that negotiates stadium naming rights, etc., but I try to ignore that -- she's still OK. Anyway, I'll let them deal with the specific economics.

I'm not talking about bond issues, though. I'm more interested in the way people "feel" about a city and its reputation.

Having grown up in a city (Columbus, Ohio) which, at that time, had no professional teams, but was surrounded by cities of roughly the same size (Cincinnati and Indianapolis -- and, slightly larger population-wise Cleveland and Pittsburgh), industrial base and demographics which had franchises, the ones with pro athletics were considered "major" cities and ours was really not. (Unless, of course, you want to count Ohio State as a professional football team)

Perhaps that kind of thing can be quantified, but I would be suspect of the conclusions because there are so many hidden variables.

Anyway, had there not been a bombing, Oklahoma City was generally not an area that I thought about (until our son went to Norman for college) except during tornado season. When the NBA moves there, though, I'll hear about it a lot.

It seems to me that if there were not benefits -- hidden or not -- no city would care about having a professional team. The "big time" cities have them. At least that's the way it appears to me -- and I've lived in a bunch of them (Baltimore, Milwaukee, Detroit, New York and Denver). I was living in Baltimore when Robert Irsay sneaked the Colts out of town literally in the middle of the night.

ETA that I've also visited and/or televised games in almost every city with a franchise as well as many with "only" major college teams. There's a different attitude.

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

I think there are "transparent" benefits for the image of a city to have a professional sports franchise that go beyond the dollars and cents that can be directly attributed the gate, consessions, parking, luxury boxes, tourism, etc.

Among them is the name mention on national and local sports, news, etc.

It's the proverbial publicity that money can't buy.

Benefits? National status? You think people care about any city in Colorado because of the Rockies or the Nuggets? Give me a break. Outside of a handful of cities in America, everything else is fly-over territory.

And it's great that you've arbitrarily picked some random thing in a city for the prominence factor. Not a well known university, museum, zoo, beach, mountain resort, etc...you picked a sports team, made a ridiculous statement, and qualified it with a "I think".

I think you make no sense.

[nate2512]

Originally Posted by Rudey

Benefits? National status? You think people care about any city in Colorado because of the Rockies or the Nuggets? Give me a break. Outside of a handful of cities in America, everything else is fly-over territory.

And it's great that you've arbitrarily picked some random thing in a city for the prominence factor. Not a well known university, museum, zoo, beach, mountain resort, etc...you picked a sports team, made a ridiculous statement, and qualified it with a "I think".

I think you make no sense.

You're an idiot. Have something against sports, were you always picked last as a kid?

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by nate2512

You're an idiot. Have something against sports, were you always picked last as a kid?

Are you a neo-nazi?

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by Rudey

Benefits? National status? You think people care about any city in Colorado because of the Rockies or the Nuggets? Give me a break. Outside of a handful of cities in America, everything else is fly-over territory.

And it's great that you've arbitrarily picked some random thing in a city for the prominence factor. Not a well known university, museum, zoo, beach, mountain resort, etc...you picked a sports team, made a ridiculous statement, and qualified it with a "I think".

I think you make no sense.

Yeah, I do think "people" care. And I do think the Rockies, Nuggetts, Broncos, Avalanche, Rapids and our other professional teams are associated with the city and its reputation.

Remember, the average person isn't college graduate and probably couldn't name a museum in most cities -- even some who live there -- but they can probably name the local professional team. My comment wasn't an arbitrary pick -- it's my opinion.

I almost always qualify my opinion with "I thinK" or something like that because I'm clearly not laboring under the assumption that I'm perfect.

You can decide who you think makes "ridiculous" comments, and I'll make my own decision as well.

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

Yeah, I do think "people" care. And I do think the Rockies, Nuggetts, Broncos, Avalanche, Rapids and our other professional teams are associated with the city and its reputation.

Remember, the average person isn't college graduate and probably couldn't name a museum in most cities -- even some who live there -- but they can probably name the local professional team. My comment wasn't an arbitrary pick -- it's my opinion.

I almost always qualify my opinion with "I thinK" or something like that because I'm clearly not laboring under the assumption that I'm perfect.

You can decide who you think makes "ridiculous" comments, and I'll make my own decision as well.

I hear it's a requirement to have a high murder rate to qualify as a major city. The average person isn't a college graduate and understands murder. Murder, I say.

I think, therefore I am.

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by Rudey

I hear it's a requirement to have a high murder rate to qualify as a major city. The average person isn't a college graduate and understands murder. Murder, I say.

I think, therefore I am.

-Rudey

To quote another post: "I think you make no sense."

Sometimes the propaganda technique of transference (trying to deflect an argument by bringing up something completely out of context) just doesn't work.

Nice try, though.

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

To quote another post: "I think you make no sense."

Sometimes the propaganda technique of transference (trying to deflect an argument by bringing up something completely out of context) just doesn't work.

Nice try, though.

You do realize I'm mimicking you right? My post wasn't supposed to make sense. But I'm glad you got it. You're a sharp one sir.

-Rudey