ouch! anyone else's wallet in pain?

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

irresponsible lenders or IRRESPONSIBLE BUYERS.

I'm not sticking up for Bush, but the lack of personal responsibility exhibited by Americans when these types of comments are made is utterly disgusting.

How does one take personality responsibility when they have lost everything? On a government who has sold them down the river for some kind of profit for rebuilding a place that does not want us there...

Mortgage securities were the big thing 12-15 years ago. I remember when the mutual funds were profiteering off it. But there are disasters that have hit the USA hard--9-11, Katrina and now the war. Yes, many of us can move beyond that. But we also have another problem:

Baby boomers retiring. They might be coerced into not retiring, but too many of them are sick with chronic illnesses that they are going to what you and I, the taxpayer to pay... Folks think they have gotten this under control, but it is not.

Most likely what will happen: the baby boomers will remain working, but with some kind of lessened tax burden or account for longterm care or term life.

The oil cartel will be obsolete in 20-50 years... We will not be using oil anymore. I don't know what else we will be using--but it won't be oil... No matter what the oil companies think...

And terrorism will be what it really is: gang activity...

[TexasWSP]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

The oil cartel will be obsolete in 20-50 years... We will not be using oil anymore. I don't know what else we will be using--but it won't be oil... No matter what the oil companies think...

Eh, too many products are produced by petroleum for it to just disappear. The only thing that will make oil "obsolete" is if we run out of it.......and nobody knows when that will be, regardless of what "experts" report in the newspaper. As long as crude can be extracted from the ground it will be utilized to a great extent, even if it isn't needed for cars.

Even if it does happen in that time span, it isn't like oil and gas companies will be hurting. There are oceans of natural gas in this country that are just now being explored, thanks in part to things like horizontal/directional drilling, which is a very new technique.

[windinthewillow]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Yes, Bush caused this. It didn't have anything to do with China, India, hurricanes, 9/11, a global war on terror, irresponsible lenders or IRRESPONSIBLE BUYERS.

I'm not sticking up for Bush, but the lack of personal responsibility exhibited by Americans when these types of comments are made is utterly disgusting.

It does did have to do with hurricanes (Katrina, "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job".) Katrina was mismanaged. FEMA awarded about $3.6 billion worth of contracts to companies with crappy credit histories. A Homeland audit found a screwed up bidding process, many of those contracts were awarded to companies who bid unreasonably high.

He put us in a war where there were no weapons of mass destruction. Remember this quote from Bush? "Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons." The ultimate cost of the war is estimated to top 3 trillion dollars. For what?

Yes, irresponsible lenders. Then why did Bush bail them out for $80 billion?


In the year 2000, the federal budget surplus was $230 billion dollars. As of today, the deficit is $9,411,116,201,914.

When Bush took office, oil was $24 a barrel. It's now $138 a barrel.

Yes, it was Bushy Boy.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by windinthewillow

It does did have to do with hurricanes (Katrina, "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job".) Katrina was mismanaged. FEMA awarded about $3.6 billion worth of contracts to companies with crappy credit histories. A Homeland audit found a screwed up bidding process, many of those contracts were awarded to companies who bid unreasonably high.

He put us in a war where there were no weapons of mass destruction. Remember this quote from Bush? "Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons." The ultimate cost of the war is estimated to top 3 trillion dollars. For what?

Yes, irresponsible lenders. Then why did Bush bail them out for $80 billion?


In the year 2000, the federal budget surplus was $230 billion dollars. As of today, the deficit is $9,411,116,201,914.

When Bush took office, oil was $24 a barrel. It's now $138 a barrel.

Yes, it was Bushy Boy.

On Katrina- Yeah, it was all FEMA. God forbid we place any blame on a NATURAL DISASTER or the people who didn't leave. FEMA had nothing to do with the cost of the storm's destruction, unless they have the ability to steer hurricanes.

He put us in the Iraq war, where we didn't find the WMD we thought we would. You can also blame the Senate Intelligence Committee, Australia, England, Israel, the UN, and IRAQ. But then, it is much more convenient to blame Bush. It is also convenient to ignore the strides our military is making, and the fact that the Iraq war has played a large role in AQ's decline (this according to the CIA last week).

I agree on the bailouts, what does that have to do with Bush and the mortgage meltdown? Unless I'm in an alternate reality, bailouts did not cause the reason for the bailouts (the subprime meltdown).

Yeah, the debt. Guess where it came from? See original post (you know, all that stuff you've failed to respond to).

On oil- You're right, Bush is at fault. It isn't, once again, ALL THOSE THINGS LISTED ABOVE. The President, God bless him, controls the price of oil. Not refinery problems, or India, or China, or those who control the supply of oil. Nope. Just Bush. And to think his party wants to drill for our own oil, here, in the US! How outrageous!

[TexasWSP]

Originally Posted by windinthewillow

When Bush took office, oil was $24 a barrel. It's now $138 a barrel.

Yes, it was Bushy Boy.

You are a goddamned moron if you think Bush is responsible for rises in oil prices. The causes for it are numerous and you are, apparently, completely ignorant of all of them.

I'm in the oil and gas business. You can save your idiotic drivel for someone else who is devoid of rational thought.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by windinthewillow

In the year 2000, the federal budget surplus was $230 billion dollars. As of today, the deficit is $9,411,116,201,914.

I don't want to be a dick here, but this line illustrates the full magnitude of just how little you understand the topic. While the year-2000 budget showed a small surplus for that year, the overall US debt was still in the trillions - in fact, it was nearly $6 trillion. Every other year of Clinton's presidency showed an increase in the deficit, indicating that the year-2000 surplus was likely a "gimmick" heading into a contentious election cycle.

Here's the actual data:



Bush shows a strong deficit increase throughout his terms, but it is actually fairly similar to the Reaganomics boom era, and this by itself shouldn't be considered damning (read up on why nations engage in deficit spending if you'd like to continue along these lines).

Your points are disingenuous and specious, in addition to showing a knack for confusing causation and correlation.

[SoEnchanting]

I'm NOT. Gas just hit $4.00 a gallon today.

[ISUKappa]

To get back on topic (not that seeing RC bitch slap somebody isn't entertaining) as of right now, no, we're not feeling the pinch. However, we have been working on our budget and savings and trying to get into the habit of being more economical due to factors that are coming up at the end of the year (new baby, new vehicle, house expenses, etc...) I know for sure at that time we'll be feeling it.

[windinthewillow]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

To get back on topic (not that seeing RC bitch slap somebody isn't entertaining) as of right now, no, we're not feeling the pinch. However, we have been working on our budget and savings and trying to get into the habit of being more economical due to factors that are coming up at the end of the year (new baby, new vehicle, house expenses, etc...) I know for sure at that time we'll be feeling it.

Bitchslapping? No. He was merely trying to crawl out from an embarrassing place since the chart that he posted clearly demonstrated the exact opposite of the point he was trying to make.

And back on topic, we're feeling the pinch in three areas. Our commuting costs have nearly doubled due to the high gasoline prices, our grocery bills have been significantly higher, and our stock portfolio has taken a huge hit.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by windinthewillow

Bitchslapping? No. He was merely trying to crawl out from an embarrassing place since the chart that he posted clearly demonstrated the exact opposite of the point he was trying to make.

It clearly shows the deficit increased exponentially under Clinton, just as it did under Bush. That's my point - that you're twisting one "fact" to fit an argument that doesn't exist.

Now, by avoiding the topic entirely, you're clearly hiding from the light of reason - keep crawling under the rock though.

[windinthewillow]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

It clearly shows the deficit increased exponentially under Clinton, just as it did under Bush. That's my point - that you're twisting one "fact" to fit an argument that doesn't exist.

Now, by avoiding the topic entirely, you're clearly hiding from the light of reason - keep crawling under the rock though.

Tsk, tsk. How you twist things around. Don't you recall that you ended your argument with these words, "We could continue if you'd like, but I think this is more than enough." It wasn't "more than enough." In fact, you still never addressed the chart you posted which pointed out the exact opposite of the point you were attempting to make.

I'll continue the discussion with you, but a few ground rules?

- please stop with the Readers Digest "Expand Your Vocabulary" words. I'm not in the least bit impressed. I see people throwing around these "intellectual" words on message boards when they don't have the substance to back up their points.

- if you're going to make a statement as a "fact," please back it up with attribution. You screwed up royally with the chart you copied and pasted.

[nittanyalum]

LOL, our good friend Chuck Norris is takin' it to Congress: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...w&pageId=66557

He's got 535 a$$es to kick and names to take.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by windinthewillow

Tsk, tsk. How you twist things around. Don't you recall that you ended your argument with these words, "We could continue if you'd like, but I think this is more than enough." It wasn't "more than enough." In fact, you still never addressed the chart you posted which pointed out the exact opposite of the point you were attempting to make.

I'll continue the discussion with you, but a few ground rules?

- please stop with the Readers Digest "Expand Your Vocabulary" words. I'm not in the least bit impressed. I see people throwing around these "intellectual" words on message boards when they don't have the substance to back up their points.

- if you're going to make a statement as a "fact," please back it up with attribution. You screwed up royally with the chart you copied and pasted.

Can I get confirmation from other people that this is nonsense?

You even quoted the point I was making, and the chart clearly shows that point - am I missing something? Seriously - could I get a tutor?

[TexasWSP]

Good article. I had no idea about the "dark areas" trading crude and how we are simply not involved in it, haha, which just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

I will say, it is very clear to me at least that our refineries couldn't handle an increase in oil. They can barely handle what we are producing now. Not saying it wouldn't help...it would absolutely drive the price down. We just don't have the refineries to do it....haven't built one since the 1950s I believe.

I agree about the first point as well.

[RaggedyAnn]

Home heating oil will cost me $4.39 a gallon. I'm debating on whether or not to fill up the tank.