Student voted out of classroom!!!

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by nate2512

An hour, a day, a week, who really cares? This kid is in kindergarten, his best friend in the class voted him against him. No five year old autistic or not, no matter how bad the kid's behavior was, what this teacher did was unacceptable and she shouldn't be allowed to teach kids again as long as she lives.

Wow for the first time ever i completly agree with your stance on an issue. . . This scares me. . . Greatly

[nate2512]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

Wow for the first time ever i completly agree with your stance on an issue. . . This scares me. . . Greatly

ha, its not too bad. I apologize but i tend to be very opinionated.

From the 2nd article posted

...Portillo told police that Alex had twice been removed from her class that day for misbehaving. She said he threw his crayons and was lying on the classroom floor, kicking the tables while other students worked on their assignments. A school resource officer, who responded to the classroom, said he saw Alex under a table....

...A school resource officer at Morningside wrote in the police report that he often works with Alex at a desk in the school office. He noted that Alex does well one-on-one, but will tear up his homework, kick the wall and lie on the floor when no one is paying attention to him.

Ok, I'm not making excuses for the teacher, but this is what it sounds like to me.

1. This kid was having a really bad day
2. His documented behavior was a disruption to his classmates learning environment and he was sent out.
3. It sounds like it's a consistent thing that this kid needs constant one-on-one attention to get work done
4. After sending the kid out, he was returned to class, at that point the teacher did this whole "vote" thing which to me, reads as follows:
   
   
   1. The teacher wanted the student to know how his behavior affected his classmates, hence the whole, "tell him what you don't like about him"
   2. The vote was not "Should he be allowed in our class", it was "should he be allowed in RIGHT NOW. Which indicates to me she was hinting that maybe he needed more time to cool off, reflect on his actions, etc.
   
   

Now, I don't have a Spec. Ed degree or certification, so I can't speak to how this situation would affect the kid's psyche. I also don't think that kids at that age have a good idea of the consequences of their actions, let alone how it would affect someone else, so the idea of trying to "shame" him into better behavior using critiques of his peers is most likely not appropriate. Do I agree with the steps the teacher used? I'd agree with it for my classes of HS freshman and sophomores but not for kids that young.

All that being said, does this teacher have a SPED cert? If not, in my opinion, its not entirely fair to paint her with a broad brush, just because she's not up to date with the Autism Spectrum. I took one class in the Ed School addressing SPED kids. To be honest, if I wanted to work in a classroom with SPED kids, I'd have pursued that endorsement. I have a student in one of my classes that is autistic, and it is a daily drain on me. He exhibits some of the same behavior as this student, if I'm standing over him, working with him exclusively, I can get work done. The second I move away, he's off task. Fortunately, he's in my smallest class so I can spend more one-on-one time with him, but if he was in some of my larger, more boisterous classes, heaven knows how it would go.

Which is why I'm not a huge fan of Inclusion. I wasn't when I was a PE major and I'm still not as a classroom teacher. I understand that children with disabilities have the right to receive the highest quality education that their disability allows, but when it comes at the detriment of their classmates, who is that fair to? If a kid goes to a resource room for English and Math instruction, why should they be placed in a Science or Social Studies classroom, where those skills are essential parts of the instruction? Just my feelings.

Kitso
KS 361

[33girl]

Originally Posted by wreckingcrew

Which is why I'm not a huge fan of Inclusion. I wasn't when I was a PE major and I'm still not as a classroom teacher. I understand that children with disabilities have the right to receive the highest quality education that their disability allows, but when it comes at the detriment of their classmates, who is that fair to? If a kid goes to a resource room for English and Math instruction, why should they be placed in a Science or Social Studies classroom, where those skills are essential parts of the instruction? Just my feelings.

Kitso
KS 361

But isn't part of the problem the fact that kids w/ Asperger's ARE quite intelligent & have high IQs once you get past the behavior issues? I mean, I don't think it would be fair to them to have to sit in a classroom w/ kids who are 7 & still don't know the alphabet.

I don't know how big this school district is but you only have so much $ & so many teachers & classrooms.

[shinerbock]

I've only glanced at the story, but from what I can tell, it seems completely inappropriate. I am certainly in favor of tough punishment for unruly kids, but shaming a young child in front of his class is absurd and cruel.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

But isn't part of the problem the fact that kids w/ Asperger's ARE quite intelligent & have high IQs once you get past the behavior issues?

That is part of the problem. Another thing to consider here is that truly disruptive behavior is not necessarily a common trait among kids with Aspergers/High Functioning Autism. In my experience it is the exception rather than the rule, though I can't say how it pans out nationally. I know it has rarely been an real issue with my son.

What are common traits are the ineptitude at social interaction and non-verbal communication (body language, inflection, sarcasm, etc.) and that disciplinary tactics that work with most kids may not work (may even make things worse) with the Aspergers/HFA kid. You often have to find different strategies for them.

The bottom line is that there isn't one right answer on whether these kids should be mainstreamed or not -- some kids should and others shouldn't. It has to be judged on a case by case basis.

[AGDee]

The children with Asperger's in our elementary school each had a Title 1 aide who worked with the child one on one. These children also ate in the classroom because the cafeteria was overwhelming to them and they each got to choose one classmate to eat with each day. The school did a good job of educating the kids in the classroom why "Nick" and "Andi" got this special treatment. In fact, "Nick" is in 8th grade now and still has his aide with him. I don't know where he eats in middle school. I haven't heard the kids talk about Andi so I think she may have moved or something.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AGDee

The children with Asperger's in our elementary school each had a Title 1 aide who worked with the child one on one. These children also ate in the classroom because the cafeteria was overwhelming to them and they each got to choose one classmate to eat with each day. The school did a good job of educating the kids in the classroom why "Nick" and "Andi" got this special treatment.

See, that's great -- especially if it helped those kids learn and integrate and helped their classmates understand and accept them. But still the one size doesn't fit all. My son is always very resistant to anything that he thinks draws attention to him or singles him out as "special." I'm only exaggerating a little when I say he'd rather have all his teeth pulled out than have it explained to his classmates why special accomodations are being made for him.

We've been extremely fortunate in having him assigned to teachers who have some understanding of Apergers and a willingness to understand him. The result has been teachers who know how to give him the support he needs and how to challenge him appropriately without making a noticeable deal out of it.

[ASUADPi]

Originally Posted by wreckingcrew

All that being said, does this teacher have a SPED cert? If not, in my opinion, its not entirely fair to paint her with a broad brush, just because she's not up to date with the Autism Spectrum. I took one class in the Ed School addressing SPED kids. To be honest, if I wanted to work in a classroom with SPED kids, I'd have pursued that endorsement. I have a student in one of my classes that is autistic, and it is a daily drain on me. He exhibits some of the same behavior as this student, if I'm standing over him, working with him exclusively, I can get work done. The second I move away, he's off task. Fortunately, he's in my smallest class so I can spend more one-on-one time with him, but if he was in some of my larger, more boisterous classes, heaven knows how it would go.

Which is why I'm not a huge fan of Inclusion. I wasn't when I was a PE major and I'm still not as a classroom teacher. I understand that children with disabilities have the right to receive the highest quality education that their disability allows, but when it comes at the detriment of their classmates, who is that fair to? If a kid goes to a resource room for English and Math instruction, why should they be placed in a Science or Social Studies classroom, where those skills are essential parts of the instruction? Just my feelings.

I don't mean to call you out, but seriously your statements just irked me. If you walked into the teaching profession "assuming" that every child would be "normal", you might want to rethink the teaching profession as a whole. Whether you have a kid with an IEP or not, YOU WILL have a special needs child (of some kind) in your classroom.

Using the excuse "if I wanted to teach it I would have gotten the endorsement", its just that, an excuse. IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act) and FAPE (free and appropriate education) guarantee these children the right to an education in their lease restrictive environment

I apologize for sounding completely bitchy and pissed, but it irks me to no end with teachers who have absolutely no patience for special needs students and would rather they "not be in their classroom".

And obviously you aren't seeing the positive a special needs child can be in your classroom. I taught 3rd grade last year (07-08) and I started out the year with 5 sped kiddos (3 SLD/1 Asbergers/ADHD and 1 Bipolar). First off, I have a very strict discipline regiman (I start out incredibly tough and lighten up throughout the course of the year). My students know that I am boss. I placed a sped kiddo in each group, so that my students understood that they would have to work with kids that were a bit slower than them. I ended the school year with only 2 sped kiddos (due to 3 kids leaving the district) and my class were amazing with them. They were willing to help them (without being asked by me), they would volunteer when asked. They learned patience. There are positives from having sped students in your room, but first off you have to stop dwelling on the negatives and look at the positives that that child can bring to your class..

BTW my comments are coming from a person who has taught 2 years in a special education self-contained setting and two years regular education (with sped students in my rooms). I am not only certified in Elementary Education but also Special Education Cross-Categorical.

Feel free to disagree with my comments. Feel free to argue with me . Thats fine

[kstar]

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

I don't mean to call you out, but seriously your statements just irked me. If you walked into the teaching profession "assuming" that every child would be "normal", you might want to rethink the teaching profession as a whole. Whether you have a kid with an IEP or not, YOU WILL have a special needs child (of some kind) in your classroom.

Using the excuse "if I wanted to teach it I would have gotten the endorsement", its just that, an excuse. IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act) and FAPE (free and appropriate education) guarantee these children the right to an education in their lease restrictive environment

I apologize for sounding completely bitchy and pissed, but it irks me to no end with teachers who have absolutely no patience for special needs students and would rather they "not be in their classroom".

And obviously you aren't seeing the positive a special needs child can be in your classroom. I taught 3rd grade last year (07-08) and I started out the year with 5 sped kiddos (3 SLD/1 Asbergers/ADHD and 1 Bipolar). First off, I have a very strict discipline regiman (I start out incredibly tough and lighten up throughout the course of the year). My students know that I am boss. I placed a sped kiddo in each group, so that my students understood that they would have to work with kids that were a bit slower than them. I ended the school year with only 2 sped kiddos (due to 3 kids leaving the district) and my class were amazing with them. They were willing to help them (without being asked by me), they would volunteer when asked. They learned patience. There are positives from having sped students in your room, but first off you have to stop dwelling on the negatives and look at the positives that that child can bring to your class..

BTW my comments are coming from a person who has taught 2 years in a special education self-contained setting and two years regular education (with sped students in my rooms). I am not only certified in Elementary Education but also Special Education Cross-Categorical.

Feel free to disagree with my comments. Feel free to argue with me . Thats fine

But you didn't name any positives.

My mother is a spec. ed. instructor and is working on her EdD in spec. ed. (already having her MEd in spec. ed, and her BA in English Ed.) and she truly believes that mainstreaming isn't always the best. If the student causes problems for the other students, he does not need to be in that class.

And it sounds like you pawn off your responsibilities on your students. They shouldn't be teaching your spec. ed. students, you should. The spec. ed. students are not the responsibility of your "normal" students.