Student voted out of classroom!!!

[RU OX Alum]

that teacher deserves to be fired, and that is the nicest thing i can say about her

[FSUZeta]

it is a public school. i can think of few things more cruel than what this teacher did.

she should be fired.

[nate2512]

that school district better prepare their legal defense to settle, they can't possibly win this one.

[MysticCat]

As the father of an Aspie kid, I can't even begin to describe how utterly mindblowing and saddening this is. Fortunately, I can say that the teachers in our public school experience have been the polar opposite of this ignoramus.

I found this line in the second story linked particularly interesting:

"She said she then asked him to listen to what the children didn't like about the things he did, and she asked him how it made him feel."

Clearly she is not only clueless about disciplining kindergarterners in general, but she is clueless about Aspergers and how kids with Aspergers think and process information. I understand as well as anyone the challenges that these kids can present (though, again fortunately, our son never had these same kinds of discipline problems and frequent trips to the principal's office), but she's supposed to be the adult in the situation.

Just beyond sad.

[33girl]

ok, I read this over again, and what I get is he isn't "officially" diagnosed yet - he's in the process? MC, how long does that take?

I mean, it almost sounds like he's been having disciplinary problems and they are trying to find a disability that goes along with it.

Here's another article - while the voting was a bad idea by any stretch of the imagination, this article clarifies that it was only for the DAY - not forever.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/treasur...id=inform_artr

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

ok, I read this over again, and what I get is he isn't "officially" diagnosed yet - he's in the process? MC, how long does that take?

I mean, it almost sounds like he's been having disciplinary problems and they are trying to find a disability that goes along with it.

Here's another article - while the voting was a bad idea by any stretch of the imagination, this article clarifies that it was only for the DAY - not forever.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/treasur...id=inform_artr

it doesn't matter how long it was for

[33girl]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

it doesn't matter how long it was for

Yes it does - the first article makes it sound like a teacher and 16 5 year olds are allowed to in effect expel a student! That just makes no sense but it does make the article more sensationalistic.

[nate2512]

Originally Posted by 33girl

ok, I read this over again, and what I get is he isn't "officially" diagnosed yet - he's in the process? MC, how long does that take?

I mean, it almost sounds like he's been having disciplinary problems and they are trying to find a disability that goes along with it.

Here's another article - while the voting was a bad idea by any stretch of the imagination, this article clarifies that it was only for the DAY - not forever.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/treasur...id=inform_artr

An hour, a day, a week, who really cares? This kid is in kindergarten, his best friend in the class voted him against him. No five year old autistic or not, no matter how bad the kid's behavior was, what this teacher did was unacceptable and she shouldn't be allowed to teach kids again as long as she lives.

[RU OX Alum]

yeah, i mean, how objective can a "vote" amongst five-year-olds be anyway?

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by nate2512

An hour, a day, a week, who really cares? This kid is in kindergarten, his best friend in the class voted him against him. No five year old autistic or not, no matter how bad the kid's behavior was, what this teacher did was unacceptable and she shouldn't be allowed to teach kids again as long as she lives.

Wow for the first time ever i completly agree with your stance on an issue. . . This scares me. . . Greatly

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by 33girl

ok, I read this over again, and what I get is he isn't "officially" diagnosed yet - he's in the process? MC, how long does that take?

I mean, it almost sounds like he's been having disciplinary problems and they are trying to find a disability that goes along with it.

Here's another article - while the voting was a bad idea by any stretch of the imagination, this article clarifies that it was only for the DAY - not forever.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/treasur...id=inform_artr

What bothers me the most is that the teacher essentially asked the students to tell the boy what they thought of him...specifically what they don't like about him. We all know little kids can be mean. A kindergarten teacher should know that five year olds don't really have empathy yet...they're honest, but not very good at censoring themselves or determining what's not a good thing to say. She didn't ask them how it made them feel when Alex acted out, she asked them what they didn't like about him and what he was doing - those are two very different questions when asked to very small children, and they're going to get very different responses. And she actually called on each student and put them on the spot?

The voting is another problem (what is this, Survivor?) for a couple reasons. First, she put Alex's classmates in the role of punisher. Second, I doubt the kids (and Alex) really felt she was asking them about removing him from the classroom for the day. She may have phrased it that way, but knowing the way kids are, once they shared all their dislikes about Alex, they probably wanted to vote him out for good if they had that power. And that's certainly what Alex was left with after all was said and done.

This teacher sounds like she has NO grasp on the mind of a five year old, and no basic regard for decency. Not to mention no understanding of autism, which is surprising in this day and age when autism is being diagnosed more and more. She's the one that should be voted off the island!

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

As the father of an Aspie kid, I can't even begin to describe how utterly mindblowing and saddening this is. Fortunately, I can say that the teachers in our public school experience have been the polar opposite of this ignoramus.

I found this line in the second story linked particularly interesting:

"She said she then asked him to listen to what the children didn't like about the things he did, and she asked him how it made him feel."

Clearly she is not only clueless about disciplining kindergarterners in general, but she is clueless about Aspergers and how kids with Aspergers think and process information. I understand as well as anyone the challenges that these kids can present (though, again fortunately, our son never had these same kinds of discipline problems and frequent trips to the principal's office), but she's supposed to be the adult in the situation.

Just beyond sad.

Are we certain that the teacher ever had any indication that the child had the "autism-spectrum disorder" he was (later) diagnosed with?

If she did not, and if the problems were repeated (and without any accompanying diagnoses to help explain the behavioral issues), I can see where the teacher would resign to a more direct, hands-on approach (although I do agree, the apparent utility of her approach seems hilariously low).

I feel bad for the teacher to an extent, because it appears she will be tried in the Court of Public Opinion under the guise of a post-hoc analysis (and diagnosis) that she may not have understood or even had any awareness of.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Are we certain that the teacher ever had any indication that the child had the "autism-spectrum disorder" he was (later) diagnosed with?

If she did not, and if the problems were repeated (and without any accompanying diagnoses to help explain the behavioral issues), I can see where the teacher would resign to a more direct, hands-on approach (although I do agree, the apparent utility of her approach seems hilariously low).

I feel bad for the teacher to an extent, because it appears she will be tried in the Court of Public Opinion under the guise of a post-hoc analysis (and diagnosis) that she may not have understood or even had any awareness of.

I understand this, but does it really matter? The kid was what, 5?

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I understand this, but does it really matter? The kid was what, 5?

I think it matters as to the teacher's intent, in my mind.

I cannot envision a rational, intelligent, well-adjusted teacher ever subjecting a child with any sort of high-functioning autism to this sort of "rule-by-peer" or whatever. I can't really understand this at all.

I can see a well-intentioned but misguided teacher attempting to include the class, to try to "soften" the blow and create a relationship between actions and effects in the child's mind through his peers and (presumably) friends if the child were considered an otherwise normal five year old who acted out. In fact, I think it's actually a relatively accepted practice (the "I statement" method) - and while it looks like she implemented it poorly, I can at least understand where she's coming from.

One is more of a basic or (possibly) well-intended error, while the other is a borderline abomination.

Then again, since what she did was pretty much incorrect either way, you could certainly argue it doesn't matter in the slightest, and I wouldn't argue.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Are we certain that the teacher ever had any indication that the child had the "autism-spectrum disorder" he was (later) diagnosed with?

I haven't seen anything that says one way or the other. However, if I recall, one of the articles linked said that it was the principal who suggested that the kid be evaluated for Aspergers. I would find it strange that the principal would make such a suggestion without talking about it with the teacher.

Of course, strange happens.

But despite my posts and "closeness" to this as the father of a kid with Aspergers, I think my reaction would have been the same if the kid didn't have it. I can't imagine doing this with any kindergarten class, for any reason. The Aspergers aspect just provides an additional facet for me.