IFC/Greek Council Rant....and some questions.

[gpb1874]

At my campus, we have PMA and they are not part of IFC. The IFC constitution states membership is open to fraternities that are members of NIC. Phi Delts were grandfathered in since they were members of NIC when they colonized. PMA has not asked to be part of IFC and I'm not sure they would fit in so well on this campus.

I belive the main issue comes to structure, both that of PMA on the local & national level and the structure of IFC. IFC tends to plan leadership or service events (not a big deal) and recruitment. Would PMA play by the rules of the other fraternities in regards to recruitment? Would they not offer membership to someone already in an NIC (or former NIC) fraternity? It could be odd for an IFC exec officer or delegate to be a member in 2 fraternities that are represented on one council.

You said PMA was a social fraternity. In my experience, social is not a primary object as it is tends to be with the NIC type fraternities. I thought PMA existed to advance the enjoyment and skill in music, not be social. I realize it can vary from campus to campus.

I'm not saying it wouldn't work or is a bad idea, just some food for thought.

It does suck that the admin changed the game without much input from the students.

It is becoming more common for campuses to start some type of Greek Council for special interest Greeks (music, service, academic, professional) so they can collaborate on activities, common interests and solve similar problems together.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by gpb1874

Would PMA play by the rules of the other fraternities in regards to recruitment? Would they not offer membership to someone already in an NIC (or former NIC) fraternity?

This has been a major question, I think, as some PMA chapters have debated whether to seek IFC membership. But in all instances I am familiar with, if the PMA chapter is a member of IFC, it is exclusive with regard to other IFC fraternities, so that dual membership is not a problem.

You said PMA was a social fraternity. In my experience, social is not a primary object as it is tends to be with the NIC type fraternities. I thought PMA existed to advance the enjoyment and skill in music, not be social. I realize it can vary from campus to campus.

Phi Mu Alpha is a social fraternity, but one with a special interest (not completely unlike FarmHouse, Alpha Gamma Rho or Triangle). There are, however, still some lingering "leftovers" from our years (50s-early80s) as a professional fraternity

It is becoming more common for campuses to start some type of Greek Council for special interest Greeks (music, service, academic, professional) so they can collaborate on activities, common interests and solve similar problems together.

I've seen this, too. The reality is that some PMA chapters find that IFC/Greek Council works for them, while others find that something else works better for their situation.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by gpb1874

You said PMA was a social fraternity. In my experience, social is not a primary object as it is tends to be with the NIC type fraternities. I thought PMA existed to advance the enjoyment and skill in music, not be social. I realize it can vary from campus to campus.

I'm not saying it wouldn't work or is a bad idea, just some food for thought.

Phi Mu Alpha is a social fraternity. Similar to NIC members, Alpha Gamma Rho, Alpha Gamma Sigma, FarnHouse, Sigma Phi Delta and Triangle. All are social first, yet focus on specific areas of academics. (i.e. music, agriculture, engineering, sciences, architecture etc.)

From what I have read and heard, Phi Mu Alpha would be a welcomed member of NIC. My understanding is that the only issue in joining is duel membership.

The NIC single membership policy started with the formation of the NIC in 1909 and continues today. To be a member of the NIC, one of the stipulations was that members of the fraternity could only have a single membership in a "social" fraternity. Be it "general" or "academic" or "religious" based - i.e. no other membership in an NIC "type" fraternity. Thus, if a fraternity allowed duel membership, they had to change the policy to single membership. For what it is worth, both NIC founding member Acacia and later, Delta Chi, allowed duel membership at one time. Perhaps a few other NICs that I am not aware of as well.

And to the NIC's credit, the NIC did not require any current members of the fraternity to give up membership in either of the fraternities. As far as the NIC was concerned, he was a member in good standing with both fraternities.

ETA: What MysticCat said. ^^^

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by TSteven

From what I have read and heard, Phi Mu Alpha would be a welcomed member of NIC. My understanding is that the only issue in joining is duel membership.

That's certainly one of the issues. My understanding of the dual membership question, though, is similar to yours -- that should we join the NIC, any ban on dual membership would likely be prospective only.

Another big issue, frankly, is money. As I understand it, dues to the NIC are based on the number of active chapters a fraternity has. If we were to seek membership and be accepted, we would be in the top 5 fraternities in terms of number of chapters (although our chapters tend to be smaller than those of many NIC fraternities). That would make for a really large bump in our budget (and dues, probably) -- the kind of extra obligation a fraternity doesn't want to take on unless there is a real comfort level that membership will be worth it.

There's another issue to, I think. While we remain out of the NIC, our chapters don't necessarily have to join IFC, at least on most campuses. I think right now our concensus is that it's better to let the decision to joing IFC/Greek Council be made on a campus-by-campus basis. Many chapters have joined IFC and it's worked great for them. Some chapters have been required by the administration to join. For other chapters, they may do better outside IFC, maybe being part of a council like AwaysSAI described. Campus cultures are different -- on some campuses, our chapters stick pretty much to the music department. (Shoot, on many campuses, all the music students create a school within a school by sticking close to the music department.) On other campuses, our chapters are actively involved in campus life in general and are much less confined to the music department. Not being in NIC allows some flexibility for chapters to do what works best for them.

So for now, we're keeping things like they are and are not part of any umbrella org. (That is, unless one counts the Interfraternity Music Council, which is basically an annual gathering of the presidents of the "music GLOs".)

Originally Posted by AlwaysSAI

I do know that the PMA chapter at my sister's school (Western Carolina Univ.) petitions to be a part of their campus IFC every semester and are turned down because they (allegedly) haze. I honestly think it's activities condoned by PMA nationals that are viewed as hazing by IFC....but anyway.

I'd be curious what activities that would be considered hazing by IFC would be condoned by our nationals. Curious and maybe a little skeptical.

Though I could easily believe that some practices condoned by our nationals would be considered hazing by the NPC. {ducking and taking cover}

[SinfonianChad]

First of all, thanks to all of you for reading through that ridiculousness. And even moreso, the information given here has been great. I think tha my largest problem so far has been that the administration here has MUCH more experience with other Greek systems than I do. My meeting with them last week....just we with all 4 of them (by the way, it's a little intimidating), they would refer to how other schools work, which I couldn't refute. At least now I have a little background, and that my efforts don't seem to be without merit.

I defintely understand the double-membership thing. I know many members of Phi Mu Alpha are also in other GLO's, though I think the environment here prevents that. We have the smae rush week as the other fraternities, and people choose which group they choose. We are essentially mutually exclusive, but only on the campus level (which I understand that some campuses do that as well). I just can't believe that the administration was so quick to act, with so little information.

I don't think the NIC thing should play nearly as large of a part of this as they've made it, so I'm goignt o try to play that card as hard as I can. Our SGA has basically condemned the administration for their activities at this point, the other 5 main greek orgs seems totaly behind me, and even teh VP of the college has voiced his support. I'm certainly hopeful

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SinfonianChad

I don't think the NIC thing should play nearly as large of a part of this as they've made it, so I'm goignt o try to play that card as hard as I can. Our SGA has basically condemned the administration for their activities at this point, the other 5 main greek orgs seems totaly behind me, and even teh VP of the college has voiced his support. I'm certainly hopeful

Good luck, and keep us updated!

And I really do want to reiterate my main chunk of advice -- call Ryan Ripperton or someone else at Lyrecrest, and call your PG. I think they could give you some helpful support. A call to your administration from our HQ might go a long way to smoothing things out. You (and your chapter) don't need to be in this alone.

[aopirose]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

A call to your administration from our HQ might go a long way to smoothing things out. You (and your chapter) don't need to be in this alone.

Very true.

Good luck with everything.

[gpb1874]

Thanks for clarifying about PMA's purpose. In my experiences, the campus chapters have stuck more closely with the music department and are not very involved on campus. I think that's (at least) partly due to the fact that the advisors of the organizations tend to be from the music department, so they encourage that tie.

Good luck with your efforts!